Win model 70 re-barreling…22-250 or 220 swift

[22vartarg]

I have a Winchester pre-64 model 70 that was made in 30–06 and the original barrel was cut down to 20 inches. I prefer 22 caliber cartridges so I want to change it. It has a standard bolt face (.473), so I need a cartridge with the same. I was originally thinking 220 Swift would be good because it was a made in 1957 and I might be able to find a sporter type contour to fit the original stock. But with current condition the way they are, finding 220 swift brass and dies is extremely difficult and/or expensive. I have 22–250 brass in good supply and the dies and everything for reloading.
I have found that Douglas Barrels makes the factory size spotter contour for the Winchester model 70, so I’m thinking of going with them. I also have 22 Creedmoor brass and dies, but that has a good bit more recoil for a lite rifle. What would you do? If you went with a 22–250, what twist rate would you go with? Main use would be target shooting and maybe some steel.

 

[strut64]

Factors That come to mind. First being intended use. If a varminter, either will work and 22 250 wins since it will be easier to feed. Secondly what weight range for bullets and twist rate. Good luck with your project

 

[strut64]

regarding my entry above, I used the term feed in the sense of having brass, dies, etc. feeding a 22 250 through a mod 70 long action magazine is also a concern.

 

[longbow]

Go all out...250AI....

 

[22vartarg]

I plan on probably doing single shot so feeding may not be an issue. As to the weight range of bullets, since I’m doing mainly target it will probably be the lighter class maybe up to 60 gr. so I’m thinking 1:14 or 1:12. I don’t see the need in the shooting the heavier bullets since the max I can go out to maybe 400-500 yards.

 

[trader steve]

220 swift love mine I have 3 Steve.

 

[358WCF]

It's been a few years, but if I remember right pre 64s had a different follower &/or mag box for the Swift due to the semi rimmed case. If you single feed not a problem. Good Swift brass is ???. Norma was the best when I still had a Swift.

I would do a 22-250 Ackley in a 26" 14 or maybe 12 twist, but am already set up with dies & brass. I've been getting right at 4000 fps with 53s in a 24" 14 twist with certain lots of a few 4350s. Since you have dies & brass for the 22 CM already there's not much difference in case capacity. Reamer may or may not be problematic with lighter bullets unless you special order as CMs seem to be set up for long heavy bullets.

 

[Steve morgan]

It's been a few years, but if I remember right pre 64s had a different follower &/or mag box for the Swift due to the semi rimmed case. If you single feed not a problem. Good Swift brass is ???. Norma was the best when I still had a Swift.

I would do a 22-250 Ackley in a 26" 14 or maybe 12 twist, but am already set up with dies & brass. I've been getting right at 4000 fps with 53s in a 24" 14 twist with certain lots of a few 4350s. Since you have dies & brass for the 22 CM already there's not much difference in case capacity. Reamer may or may not be problematic with lighter bullets unless you special order as CMs seem to be set up for long heavy bullets.

I would go 22-250 / 14 twist

 

[Big Mc]

I have a Winchester pre-64 model 70 that was made in 30–06 and the original barrel was cut down to 20 inches. I prefer 22 caliber cartridges so I want to change it. It has a standard bolt face (.473), so I need a cartridge with the same. I was originally thinking 220 Swift would be good because it was a made in 1957 and I might be able to find a sporter type contour to fit the original stock. But with current condition the way they are, finding 220 swift brass and dies is extremely difficult and/or expensive. I have 22–250 brass in good supply and the dies and everything for reloading.
I have found that Douglas Barrels makes the factory size spotter contour for the Winchester model 70, so I’m thinking of going with them. I also have 22 Creedmoor brass and dies, but that has a good bit more recoil for a lite rifle. What would you do? If you went with a 22–250, what twist rate would you go with? Main use would be target shooting and maybe some steel.

I have two Swifts, so i lean that way. Tommy Mc.

 

[B23]

With a long action you have damn near endless options. The 220 Swift is nostalgic and will go down in history as one of the best varmint cartridges ever but its Achille's heel, if it has one, is brass quality. Doesn't mean the Swift is a bad choice but when comparing brass quality in the Swift to Lapua, ADG, or Alpha Munitions which is available for the 22-250 and or 22 Creedmoor it lags behind.

The easiest of those three and with top shelf brass quality would be the 22-250 and 22CM. I wouldn't bother with a 22-250AI if you want more speed than a standard 22-250 offers go with the 22CM or maybe even consider a 22-243. No sense in using up components to "improve" a case when there are cases available that require no forming and mirror one that needs to be improved.

As for twist I wouldn't go with anything less that a 12tw and would seriously consider a 10tw if you ever have any intentions to shoot something like the Sierra 60gr TMK which for your purpose and range would make for a very good choice.

Also, with regard to which barrel to buy I would seriously consider a Bartlein barrel in their new 400MODBB steel. They cost a little more but are showing to last a few hundred rounds longer and shoot equally well as their other barrels. At the least it would be worth a phone call to Frank Green at Bartlein to discuss the pros and cons.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

You may be sorry if you go the 14 twist. Lots of the plastic tipped bullets are too long to stabilize in a 14 twt. Nothing will be lost by going 12 twt. It will also allow you to use flat base 60 to 65 grain bullets.

Frank

 

[No manches"]

I have a Winchester pre-64 model 70 that was made in 30–06 and the original barrel was cut down to 20 inches. I prefer 22 caliber cartridges so I want to change it. It has a standard bolt face (.473), so I need a cartridge with the same. I was originally thinking 220 Swift would be good because it was a made in 1957 and I might be able to find a sporter type contour to fit the original stock. But with current condition the way they are, finding 220 swift brass and dies is extremely difficult and/or expensive. I have 22–250 brass in good supply and the dies and everything for reloading.
I have found that Douglas Barrels makes the factory size spotter contour for the Winchester model 70, so I’m thinking of going with them. I also have 22 Creedmoor brass and dies, but that has a good bit more recoil for a lite rifle. What would you do? If you went with a 22–250, what twist rate would you go with? Main use would be target shooting and maybe some steel.

I have two 220 swifts and one 22-250, for availability of brass= 22-250 is the way to go".
For the ultimate roadster 220 swift and brass can still be found pricey but still available
My first 220 is build on a 1903 Springfield and feeds with no additional modifications.
My second is a post 64 winchester model 70
Which needed a magazine follower modification to feed perfectly..easy to do at home.
The 1903 has a douglas 11 twist.
Model 70 has a kreiger 12 twist.
If I would get a chance to rebarrel, I will go with a 10twist. Benefits the nosler 60grn Btip.

And since I do! Shoot both and the 22-250 and while yes both cartridge are accurate"..
The 220 swift will be still be the KING!.

 

[SBS]

Like the Swift, but requires FL sizing a little more often. IF you do load from the magazine, you will need the special mag. box designed with an angle (front to back), so that the rim on each cartridge is always ahead of the one below it. Win. used the same magazine spring and follower as the .243, .308 and other shorter rounds. A blocked off shorter magazine box designed for the .243/.308 will work with a .22-250 and should be pretty easily found. I agree with fkimble, go at least 12 twist because of the newer bullets these days. If you truly are going to single feed, consider the .22-250 Ackley version; gives Swift performance and seldom needs FL sizing or trimming ( but would need receiver feed rail alteration to feed through magazine). Plus dies are pretty available for the AI version.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I have owned 2, .22-250's over, a 30 + year span, and I would NOT,.. ever, EVER, go with, a 14 Twist, again !
SEE Post # 11, the 53 gr. V-Max's and 55 gr. NBTS won't, always,.. "stabilize", Especially in,.. COLD, Weather !
The .22-250 HAS, Tons of different Brass, "Available" ( a "No Brainer", here ! )
You might want to install a "Block" in your action and Cut your Follower,.. a bit !
The only choice that, I'd be making, would be to, Ackleyize it,.. OR,.. not !
I'd go WITH,.. 1-9 or, 1-12 Twist,.. Choose your Bullet weight ( Length ) and, intended, PURPOSE !
The .22-250, "can" be down loaded from, Hornet to almost, Swift Velocities ( IF Ackleyed ).
I shoot Varmints with, 50 gr Bullets at, .223 Rem. Velocities with, Sub, 1/2 MOA accuracy.

 

[22vartarg]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. Looks like I will be going with the 22-250 and with at least a 1:12 twist. I plan to shoot 50-55 gr. bullets mainly. For fun I tried feeding the 22-250 from the internal mag and it seemed to work ok.

 

[B23]

As I mentioned earlier, a 12 is good but I'd seriously consider a 10tw. I can't think of a single time when I had something built where I wished the barrel had a slower twist. Not exactly apples to apples but my 223AI has a Hart 9tw and I've shot all the way down to the 40 grainers in it and they still shot extremely well.

 

[No manches"]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. Looks like I will be going with the 22-250 and with at least a 1:12 twist. I plan to shoot 50-55 gr. bullets mainly. For fun I tried feeding the 22-250 from the internal mag and it seemed to work ok.

Don't hold back..you have a long action, take full benefit.
If you've never had a 220 swift, you may never know just how wonderful it is", and what is capabilities are!..
But if you are set on the 22-250* go with a 10twist.........you'll thank me later!.

 

[22vartarg]

Ok…you all have talked me into 1:10 twist.

 

[B23]

Ok…you all have talked me into 1:10 twist.

With the higher BC modern day middle weight 22cal bullets we have available to use today, IMO, all factory 22-250 and 220 Swift should come with a 10tw. My Kelby 22-250 came with a Brux 12tw but if I ever have it replaced it'll get a 10tw put back on it.

 

[No manches"]

Ok…you all have talked me into 1:10 twist.

Happy you're doing what I should have done!, granted my 11twist Douglas does very well indeed. But it won't stabilize the 69's..
And you may ask why am I shooting 69's? The benefits of BC and long range coyote hunting.

And the kreiger 12twist while it stabilizes the 53grn Vmax..no doubt the 11twist makes it more of a lazer like lighting strike".
So enough said",good choice .