Wilson Inside Neck Reamer for Donut Removal

[urbanrifleman]

So would you all say that a donut will not be formed if an expander is used at sizing from the beginning?

 

[243winxb]

I have not seen a donut in 243 win. brass.

Sizing down 308 to 243 using LC brass will form a donut.

Have used RCBS standard dies with expander.
Have used Redding Type S FL sizing bushing die . With and without expander. Outside neck turned and not turned. Factory chambers.

When sizing 1/2 of the neck , for a factory chamber, a donut would not contact the bullet any way.

The .268" diameter will become .270" after bullet seating. The .276" diameter has fully expanded to the chamber after 19 firings. No annealing. Winchester brand brass.

 

[BenPerfected]

Just switched to the K&M expander. It works by pulling up from the bottom of the neck and moves the donut buildup up into the neck. It will also significantly help with concentricity vs. using the traditional top down expander mandrel or button. The K&M expander can be made to your exact specs and significantly improve your concentricity.
Ben

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have not seen a donut in 243 win. brass.

Sizing down 308 to 243 using LC brass will form a donut.

Have used RCBS standard dies with expander.
Have used Redding Type S FL sizing bushing die . With and without expander. Outside neck turned and not turned. Factory chambers.

When sizing 1/2 of the neck , for a factory chamber, a donut would not contact the bullet any way.

The .268" diameter will become .270" after bullet seating. The .276" diameter has fully expanded to the chamber after 19 firings. No annealing. Winchester brand brass.

This post should be permanently posted at the top of the page. BRILLIANT!!!

 

[fguffey]

This post should be permanently posted at the top of the page. BRILLIANT!!!

Sizing down 308 to 243 using LC brass will form a donut.

Again and again etc. I ask; does anyone know what a donut is? I have formed 22/6 MM Remington wildcat cases from 25/06 and 30/06 cases, I have necked down 308 W cases to 243 cases. There is a difference between forming and necking up and or down.

I have not seen a donut in 243 win. brass.

I have never seen a donut form in a 30/40 Crag, or a 303 British, or a 25/06 ,or a 30/06 or a 270 W, 280 Remington and then there is the 8mm57 and 7MM57, 35 Whelen, 338/06; I do not expect donuts to from in many cases but I do expect donuts to form in cases by the way they are designed.

I have an expensive die with an expensive reamer, it is a transitional die meaning I can not form 22/243(6MM) Remington wildcat cases from 25/06 and or 30/06 cases; because there will not be a hole in the neck of the formed cases. The expensive die and reamer is used to open up the neck for the next stage of forming. Even thought the neck is almost closed off what ever it is it is not called a donut and the cure is not called 'removing the donut'.

F. Guffey

 

[Shynloco]

Would anyone like to comment on whether this would work? I already have a Wilson trimmer.

Would you simply buy the standard size and ream the fired case?

I've done it, have those reamers and have found it ain't worth the work or the effort. You get the same and maybe better results by using a mandrel to straighten any flaws out. Think about it, the mandrel (oversized is what I use) will push the uneven surface to the top and then you lightly turn the brass to eliminate them completely. I learned that from far more experienced reloaders and shooters. but learned it after the fact of having bought the damn inside neck reamers. Save your money because you will loose at least .02 in the thickness of your brass by reaming the inside of the necks. That means you could end up with brass that is .09 or less thick if you've already turned the outside of your brass and that could affect your neck tension and consistency.

Alex

 

[fguffey]

You get the same and maybe better results by using a mandrel to straighten any flaws out

because there will not be a hole in the neck of the formed cases.

And I said that ever though it is in the neck it is not a donut and when opening up the neck it is not called 'removing the donut'.

better results by using a mandrel

If the neck was open I could consider a broach, but, again, I would have to consider case support on the outside of the neck, shoulder and case body. I have broaches, cool tools, some will cut round holes and others will cut 6 sided holes.

F. Guffey

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have not seen a donut in 243 win. brass.

Sizing down 308 to 243 using LC brass will form a donut.

Have used RCBS standard dies with expander.
Have used Redding Type S FL sizing bushing die . With and without expander. Outside neck turned and not turned. Factory chambers.

When sizing 1/2 of the neck , for a factory chamber, a donut would not contact the bullet any way.

The .268" diameter will become .270" after bullet seating. The .276" diameter has fully expanded to the chamber after 19 firings. No annealing. Winchester brand brass.

After two firings my brass looks EXACTLY like this. You cannot feel the donut at all. I am starting to wonder if the donut problems are not coming from using too small of neck diameters.

 

[CKshooter]

I had donut issues with 243 brass sized up to 260rem. After a ton of research on this site i took my outside neck turner and shaved off a couple thou at the neck shoulder junction. After reloading and firing the cases the donut was gone. All it did was give the excess brass on the inside a place to go. Hope this helps.

 

[No i deer]

My 284 is a tight necked chamber being .315
Lapua brass..
What exact size does the inside neck reamer need to be ground too.
Is it 1 thousandths bigger than the bullets diameter or 1.5 thousandths.??
The case does expand on firing to the chamber size ish with a little spring back..
I don't want to get one ground and its too small and won't take any donuts off if there is any..
Thanks No I deer

 

[AlNyhus]

My 284 is a tight necked chamber being .315, Lapua brass..
What exact size does the inside neck reamer need to be ground too.
Is it 1 thousandths bigger than the bullets diameter or 1.5 thousandths.?? The case does expand on firing to the chamber size ish with a little spring back..
I don't want to get one ground and its too small and won't take any donuts off if there is any..
Thanks No I deer

The first thing you need to do is accurately measure the neck I.D. on a fired case. The best way to do this is with a pin gauge. They are commonly available on ebay, for example. Once you know that measurement, you can order the reamer diameter you like.

Not sure what your setup is going to be for doing this? Supporting the case and not allowing the reamer to touch the neck I.D. during the removal is critical. With a well supported case and good reamer alignment, a reamer .002 under the case neck I.D. works well. It goes without saying that removal should only be done on fired cases.

Make sure the reamer(s) you purchase have significant taper on the cutting end and do it by hand so you can feel what's happening.

For what it's worth.... -Al

 

[SmokinJoe]

As was said above, mandrel it up to push any donut to the outside, then turn it to remove. You might have to do it twice to get it just right. Ask anybody that has worked with 30BR brass for benchrest competition about donuts and this is the best procedure. BTW, I have done inside neck reaming using the Wilson tools many years ago and they have sat, without being used again, for about 30 something years now. When you turn it, be sure to turn into the shoulder a little so there won't be a tight spot at that point. Try to find a Youtube or articles on benchrest brass prep and it will show you some detail about what I'm talking about. Good luck working out your brass issues.

 

[No i deer]

Thanks for replies.
I have bought myself the L E Wilson trimmer ultimate to do it with when any donuts appear.
I have got some inherited brass that has donuts forming again but as I am seated above them it makes no difference but I'd like the option to use a different bullet if I feel the need too hence the inside neck reamer..!!
I have done these cases once before not knowing I needed a custom fit one and used a standard one that shaved brass off and I wasn't aware at the time.
In my defence when I bought the inside neck reamer from the same place I bought my Redding s type dies and bushings.!!
For me if someone rang up and asked to buy a reamer you'd think the seller would ask if its for a standard chamber or a tight necked chamber as they are a specialized tool.....
I was thinking the brass moving forward on firing could make the brass thicker on the inside of the neck as it could on the outside at the time..
I got over it after I made the necks thinner i had to use a smaller bushing after to resize with so to get neck tension.
I was thinking as there was 3 to 3.5 thousandths clearance on a loaded round in the chamber the case would expand to the chamber an the standard 2 to 3 thousanths over size standard inside neck reamer would just fit and only shave off the donuts.
I still use this brass and it shoots fine but I won't make the mistake again....
Thanks No I deer

 

[NorCalMikie]

Donuts?? Weather they effect your loading or not depends a lot on your chamber specs. Short throat chamber can cause problems IF you seat the bullet deep in the case neck and hit an existing donut.
If you jam into the lands, you may seat above the donuts so no issues.
Me? I jam into a short throat so no problems and I'am using the lightest bullets I can find BUT, it would be just a easy to use the proper size mandrel to push the donut to the outside THEN turn it off. Don't remove anything from the brass that you don't need to. I use Precision Bushing Bump Dies so no donuts are formed.
Comp brass? You folks think different a little different than regular load and go shooters.

 

[No i deer]

I have the K&M tools including the expander mandrel that you use prior to neck turning but always thought that you should only inside neck ream on a fired cases..
I'm not convinced the expander will push the donuts outwards enough or at all but I don't know for sure..!!!

 

[Straightshooter1]

I'm not convinced the expander will push the donuts outwards enough or at all but I don't know for sure..!!!

I was skeptical too, but that's pretty much what I found it does. But as one might expect, there's still some spring back, so it's not fully moved when the mandrel is run through. That's why some recommendations are to do the neck turning procedure twice.

 

[No i deer]

After so many firings I re-neck turn my brass anyway..
I've not got any donuts in any of the brass I've neck turned myself that I'm aware of.....

 

[Nick LaFave]

I remember seeing a picture on here somewhere of a guy that had a custom reamer made and was reaming the inside of his brass when it was supported in his die.
Looked like a slick setup.

Or pony up the dough and get an IDOD.

 

[AlNyhus]

I bought the inside neck reamer from the same place I bought my Redding s type dies and bushings.!! For me if someone rang up and asked to buy a reamer you'd think the seller would ask if its for a standard chamber or a tight necked chamber as they are a specialized tool.....

Wilson specifically states that their standard neck reamers are .002-.003 larger than bullet diameter. Whether it's a tight neck or standard neck chamber doesn't really matter...you need to order the correct reamer dimension for what you intend it to do.

Good shootin'. -Al

P.S. Blending into the shoulder when turning the necks helps reduce the formation of donuts. I normally push the shoulders back .020-.025 and simply cut down to the 'pushed back' shoulder. When the shoulder blows forward during f-forming, you have your 'blend' cut.

 

[Chuckhunter]

So would you all say that a donut will not be formed if an expander is used at sizing from the beginning?

No, I turned up 40 cases for my 6BRA, after four firings I used a pin gauge to check for donuts, found six. Ran them all over an expander mandrel, returned and rechecked with pin gauge. Four of them were gone 2 were still there repeated the process on the two that didn't clean up, still there. Put them in my circular file and turned up two fresh ones, problem solved. Since my new reamer has a longer throat, even if I get a donut, my pressure ring never contacts it. I still will try to remove it because, well you know!