Wilson Hand Dies only?

[DoubleGobble00]

I want to get back into reloading but would like to stick with Wilson hand dies and arbor press only. Is this possible? Or do I need to full length size at some point in time?

I use to reload about 6-7 years ago and had arbor press and RCBS rock chucker. I can't remember full length sizing then but might now have shot it enough to need to FL size. What are your thoughts? Thanks,

DoubleG

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

A thread about full-length vs. neck sizing crops up here every week or two -- look in the main and reloading forums.

Short answer: if you are running full-pressure loads you will have to FL resize sooner or later, usually sooner. Virtually all competitive shooters FL size with a properly-fitting die every time, which requires something other than an arbor press.

 

[mikecr]

Depends on your cartridge, chamber, build, and load. Basically, it takes a plan.
I use Wilson for necks and seating. Sinclair expander mandrel die for pre-seating. For shoulder bumping I use Redding body dies(some are custom), and a pretty standard Redding press.
I don't FL size, don't have to, and there is no benefit in doing so for my stuff.

 

[dedogs]

For shoulder bumping I use Redding body dies(some are custom), and a pretty standard Redding press.
I don't FL size,

Mike, Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you bump the shoulder with a body die without full-length resizing? dedogs

 

[ireload2]

Sooner or later you run into a good deal on once fired brass fired in a different rifle. Then you will need to FL resize.

On the other hand if you only use brass originally fired in your rifle you can get away with Wilson dies for a long time.
Several of my rifles have brass that has been dozens of times without FL sizing .. except the first time.
The first time they had to be FL sized because the cases were once fired from another rifle.

 

[DoubleGobble00]

Thanks for the info. I plan to buy Lapua brass for each rifle (308 and 300 WM) and stick with it... So it seems like once the cases get tight in the chamber you must FL size the cases. This might take a few rounds with hot loads and many rounds with mild loads. Is that correct?

 

[boltfluter]

Thanks for the info. I plan to buy Lapua brass for each rifle (308 and 300 WM) and stick with it... So it seems like once the cases get tight in the chamber you must FL size the cases. This might take a few rounds with hot loads and many rounds with mild loads. Is that correct?

Right on the money. IMHO.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Thanks for the info. I plan to buy Lapua brass for each rifle (308 and 300 WM) ...

AFAIK Lapua doesn't make .300 WM brass. If you can find RWS or Ruag .300 WM brass (check Huntington's) you won't be disappointed.

 

[22BRGUY]

Mike, Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you bump the shoulder with a body die without full-length resizing? dedogs

Can't answer for Mike but body dies do not resize the necks at all in my experience. Neck sizing can then be done with either a Wilson neck bushing die or maybe a Lee collet die.

 

[mikecr]

Mike, Please forgive my ignorance, but how do you bump the shoulder with a body die without full-length resizing? dedogs

Where my body die changes any body dimension, I have it polished out to cease that result.
What I end up with is a body squeezed enough to support shoulder bumping, but not actually body sized.

To do this, if needed, find someone who fits dies to fired brass that you provide.
When I fire form brass, I also do pressure testing to find 'MyMax' load. This is the point with near web yielding, which is the point where FL sizing would be required. These yielded cases are useful to send with body die fitting, fooling the die fitter into giving me what I want(instead of what he thinks I want).

I've done this with four different cartridges now(223, 6br, 6xc, 6.5wssm), and it's worked out perfect for me. But then these chambers have ranged from relatively tight to flat out fitted, and these cartridges are also better suited to this plan.
You can't just do this with any cartridge or any chamber for it. For instance, where your cartridge design includes high body taper and low shoulder angle, and larger area(>40grH20), and relatively thin brass for area, you will have to FL size soon. Where your chamber is sloppy in clearances, and lacking sufficient barrel steel and breech support for intended pressures, you will have to FL size soon. Basically, most off the shelf hunting cartridges & guns put you here.

 

[LHSmith]

Unless you plan to never venture into mid to full power loads, then my advice is FL size every time. Save your bolt lugs and abutments and extraction cam from unnecessary wear and realize a gain in aggregate accuracy.

 

[dedogs]

Where my body die changes any body dimension, I have it polished out to cease that result.

Mike, Thank you for the reply to my question. Interesting concept worth trying. dedogs

 

[mikecr]

I don't prescribe to consensus that FL sizing is ideal. My personal reasoning resolves nothing ideal in it.
But there is the reality that FL sizing is a cornerstone of basic reloading, and factory cartridges are designed as a system that includes it for any reloading. The 'system' part of what I'm talking about here is important, because any system represents a balance, and you cannot better sway a balance -with single changes. At best, a single change only relieves or causes a flawed condition, regardless of the actual balance.
This holds any time we depart from basic reloading. So subjects of turning, TIR, pocket life, extraction, bumping, trim length, cleanliness, loads, primers, annealing, all matters of individual sizing, etc., will always bring in multiple factors(typically overlooked).

To change so many things allowing continued reload cycles of 308 or 300wm without body sizing, would be redesigning a new system. And you wouldn't get far into such an endeavor before abandoning both cartridges, as they aren't worth it,, no better balance there.
That doesn't mean we should abandon initiatives to improve. But it's best to think it through to viability.

 

[DoubleGobble00]

Thank you for all the information!

 

[ireload2]

Perhaps you should consider the use of a cartridge case a defect in the system.
Without the case, things would be much more perfect..... You would have none of the variables associated with the case.

On the contrary FL sizing is ideal. Otherwise you could not load the rifle reliably for even the first shot with new brass.
FL sizing is how the tolerances for interchangeable "parts" are transfered to the cartridge case. The problem with FL sizing is getting it perfect.
If you live in a world of only one rifle chamber of a given caliber you can think as you do. As soon as you have multiple sources of ammo and multiple chambers you cannot continue that thought process.

In Theory >>>> Practice and theory are the same
In Practice >>> They are not.....

I don't prescribe to consensus that FL sizing is ideal. My personal reasoning resolves nothing ideal in it.
But there is the reality that FL sizing is a cornerstone of basic reloading, and factory cartridges are designed as a system that includes it for any reloading. The 'system' part of what I'm talking about here is important, because any system represents a balance, and you cannot better sway a balance -with single changes. At best, a single change only relieves or causes a flawed condition, regardless of the actual balance.
This holds any time we depart from basic reloading. So subjects of turning, TIR, pocket life, extraction, bumping, trim length, cleanliness, loads, primers, annealing, all matters of individual sizing, etc., will always bring in multiple factors(typically overlooked).

To change so many things allowing continued reload cycles of 308 or 300wm without body sizing, would be redesigning a new system. And you wouldn't get far into such an endeavor before abandoning both cartridges, as they aren't worth it,, no better balance there.
That doesn't mean we should abandon initiatives to improve. But it's best to think it through to viability.

 

[BenPerfected]

multiple chambers you cannot continue that thought process.

In Theory >>>> Practice and theory are the same
In Practice >>> They are not.....[/QUOTE]

huh?

 

[ireload2]

When your ammo has to work in multiple rifles the purpose of FL sizing become very apparent.

In theory everything including practice (the real world) is perfect.

In practice we know that theory and the real world are different. Real world manufacturing requires some tolerance to make things affordable. No 2 bullets, cases, primers or powder charges are exactly the same.

multiple chambers you cannot continue that thought process.

In Theory >>>> Practice and theory are the same
In Practice >>> They are not.....

huh?[/QUOTE]

 

[savagedasher]

My sizeing die works with all my dashers .
But all my chambers are cut with the same reamer . The cases work in friends guns also. Their chamber we made with the same reamer. My sizeing die does the necks also . The neck must be sized again for bullet tension . That is a bushing die .
It may not be the correct way to do it.
But it works for me and my friends.
Happy New Year. Larry

 

[hogan]

Redding Type S, FL will serve w/great versatility. Bushings for your neck tension. Pull the bushing and decap assy and use as a Body Die. Redding states as much in their directions. Want only to neck size? Use a spacer set. Still not sure why Redding don't put the sizing ball up high on the pin assy; so the pin stays centered (even better) as the primer is moved out, but they don't.

Most versatile die design there is. Go with a Forster benchrest seating die, unless you really want that mic head stuff, and you are set.

Got several ctgs that all use the same ctg body design? Your Type S FL will work with them all; then there are the AI S FLs. Lots of versatility. Forster will sell you die chambers and seating rods, so you can accomplish much interchanging with their best seaters also.

Wilson is great stuff, but slow; just like the Lee Loader which will also make great ammo.