Williamsport 2021

[Chuckhunter]

Look, Joe will tell you, all I want to do is shoot, period. With that being said, I'm also not opposed to trying something new, especially if it has the blessings of the folks in charge and if you have an option to shoot a second time without being penalized. Try it for a year and if it doesn't go over big with the membership, go back to what it was before. Either way I'll be there shooting, Lord willing. Wishing everyone a Happy New Year!

 

[Raythemanroe]

I'm not opposed to something new or do I feel there is anything wrong with shooting more. Although ten separate match dates being the reason for not having it count as a double match again makes zero sense. That's actually counter productive to gaining interest, wasting people's gas and time just because you want it that way for your own personal reasons. If you are going to do doubles and agg the winner it should count as a match..

Using 15 benches was already voted on and should be what is happening. Obviously less relays would make this easier..

Ray

 

[Joe Salt]

Ray those are not just my own personal reasons, I've heard it to many times, I shoot ten shots and go home if I don't get in the shoot off. Well here you go! The only fair way I can come up with and still have ten regular
matches. Oh and the other thing I hear is if we use 15 benches I have to shoot against 14 other people!
Well this also eliminates that crying. Like I say this time the wind maybe in my favor!

Joe Salt

 

[Raythemanroe]

Ray those are not just my own personal reasons, I've heard it to many times, I shoot ten shots and go home if I don't get in the shoot off. Well here you go! The only fair way I can come up with and still have ten regular
matches. Oh and the other thing I hear is if we use 15 benches I have to shoot against 14 other people!
Well this also eliminates that crying. Like I say this time the wind maybe in my favor!

Joe Salt

Why do you have to have ten regular match dates? I guess you skip right past the entire point of wasting people's time and expenses. If you are shooting a double match and agging the winner's why would you not count the second as a actual ten match agg? I don't understand the thought, just because you want to drive more and use your camper?

Shooting 5 double match dates would allow you to better schedule all. Matches could be run in better conditions typically. World open and shooting school can be easier scheduled to not interfere with other matches thus possibly having a higher turn out.. Members could participate in other events without sacrificing their ten match aggs as frequently. Club could schedule other events bringing in more revenue.

Just put both up for a vote:

Option one:. Your proposal

Option two: double match (winner agg)

Option three: keep current format

Let the members decide

P.S. The members already voted on using 15 benches when the bench renovations were done. The fact that they are not isn't because of the majority complaining..



Ray

 

[Joe Salt]

Ray I'm not on the board anymore! I just put that out there to see if people are interested. And a big thing is I don't control the weather or the gas prices. So if an extra $20 is bothering you for gas, I voted for TRUMP!
They let the members vote how to go with the World Open so hopefully it will be a member vote.

Joe Salt

 

[WIB3]

You all are arguing about the potential of winning $75 dollars.

 

[WIB3]

My time making bullets and reloading is worth far more than $75. If one is so privileged and has a camper, stay late and shoot your heart out. I will travel 250 miles each day solely for the love of the sport. If you want to stay and shoot well shoot. One very interesting question, how will World of Fame points be calculated.

 

[WIB3]

We all need to focus on what brings us all together. It doesn’t matter what discipline you participate in or where you chose to shoot. Ultimately we all do this because we have it in our blood. We all love the competition and winning but more importantly the fellowship which takes place at every match. We are all a family, we all like to win and sometimes the rides home are very long. But for some odd reason we all do it over and over again. Friendship and shaking the hand of those who out shot me and those who come and shake my hand when I do well is what draws me to the sport. You can’t put a price tag on that.

 

[Don Shelton]

Ray I'm not on the board anymore! I just put that out there to see if people are interested. And a big thing is I don't control the weather or the gas prices. So if an extra $20 is bothering you for gas, I voted for TRUMP!
They let the members vote how to go with the World Open so hopefully it will be a member vote.

Joe Salt

Joe do you know if they plan on having a vote on any of this at the next meeting? If so I would make the 3 + hour journey to hear the proposals and vote

 

[Joe Salt]

Don hopefully they we have a meeting this coming year. January I believe. There probably still trying to find a place to have it with the Covid crap and all. But the World Open will go back to agg. instead of point system.
As for my proposal, I think there should be a vote by the members also. If they send out ballots that would be nice.


Joe Salt

 

[Dave Way]

I want to state up front that I am not currently a member at this range. The reason for that is very simple. It’s not because I’m cheap and don’t want to spend the money. It’s not because I have anything against the range or it’s shooters, I think both are awesome. The reason is I that have other shooting opportunities that are closer and afford more shooting on any given day. It truly is difficult to justify traveling 7 hours to shoot at best one relay and a shoot-off. I really like squeezing the trigger and I would bet there isn’t another shooter at Williamsport who doesn’t!!!

So it appears this discussion has brought up not only regular matches but the World Open as well. Personally I would be more likely to attend the regular matches if they were double matches with no shoot offs. That would guarantee everyone got to shoot more frequently on either Saturday, Sunday or both. It would also allow Williamsport to come up with some 20 target aggregates in the course of a season. No one will ever win a 20 target aggregate by always getting the best relays.

As far as the World Open, I and many others I know, agree that an aggregate of three targets would help negate lucky relay draws. Keep the modified system or go back to the old scoring system, it really doesn’t matter to me. Everyone is competing under the same rules anyway. A four target aggregate would be even better but that would probably require making it a three day match with three alternating relays on Friday and Saturday with one light and one heavy on Sunday.

If anyone reading this shot 2021 IBS 600 Yard Nationals, they saw how quickly a match can move along. 100 shooters can shoot 5 or 6 relays (Maybe 7 I can’t remember!) shooting a total of 8 targets in one day, actually in like 6-7 hours. Two targets shot at each of four trips to the bench. Again, please don’t take this as a criticism, just something that may make people think about how things could possibly be run more efficiently.

So right now if you are a regular shooter at Williamsport you may be thinking “great, a non-member wants us to change things and not enough people volunteer to do the work already”. Here is my answer to that.

With more shooting, you will end up drawing in more shooters, especially shooters that have long drives. Shooters who drive long distances to shoot are usually pretty serious about shooting and more likely to volunteer if it means they get to shoot more. I for one would try to do more if I were attending more matches and actually began to “Feel” like a member. One time when I was a member, they asked everyone to come inside for a vote. I can’t remember what we were even voting on but I abstained because I did feel right voting when it seemed like I was a newbie to the range.

I know change is difficult, usually more difficult for some than for others. If you have made it this far into this long post, all I ask is that everyone keep an open mind and remember how crucial it is to stick together as shooters in this political environment.

Again, I am not trying to stir the pot. I’m simply trying to have an open discussion that is civilized. Remember, nothing we do in life has the approval of everyone. All we can do is make suggestions and allow the majority to determine what comes of them.

I would be glad to have a personal conversation with anyone who would care to discuss things. Just PM me your cell and I will make myself available.

Thanks for listening,
Dave.

 

[Chuckhunter]

Dave, I certainly understand how you feel even though I only have a 2hr. and 15 min. drive. That's still 4 1/2 hrs. round trip and I have been gone in as few as 18 shots. Joe's recommendation seems very reasonable especially since you have a choice to decline the second match without penalty or effect on your 10 match agg. I value your opinion, member or not. You are one of the shooters that force me to up my game and I thank you for that. Whatever course is taken, I will continue to shoot and what are we going to lose if we give it a one-year trial period. As you stated, not trying to stir the pot. I'm a shooter not a politician and that will not change. Thank you for your opinion and hope to see you at the range.

 

[Don Shelton]

Don hopefully they we have a meeting this coming year. January I believe. There probably still trying to find a place to have it with the Covid crap and all. But the World Open will go back to agg. instead of point system.
As for my proposal, I think there should be a vote by the members also. If they send out ballots that would be nice.


Joe Salt

Joe,,,,,call me “Buck” ,,,,,,alias is Don !! See you in the spring

 

[Joe Salt]

Dave, Chuck, and Buck! That sounds like a song in the making. LOL I have been making phone calls and from what we are up against is getting the Computer to do what we want. Other than that I think people would like to try it. So I guess I'll put the feelers out there we need a Programmer that understands the sport.
And the price to do it would help. And I also want the 600 yard matches to be included I think it can be done.

Joe Salt

 

[Don Shelton]

Dave, Chuck, and Buck! That sounds like a song in the making. LOL I have been making phone calls and from what we are up against is getting the Computer to do what we want. Other than that I think people would like to try it. So I guess I'll put the feelers out there we need a Programmer that understands the sport.
And the price to do it would help. And I also want the 600 yard matches to be included I think it can be done.

Joe Salt

Nice,keep me in the loop,,Mike Lowitz is all in too

 

[DHuffman]

I've never been to Williamsport so what I'm about to say is in no way meant to insinuate what is going on there.

I'm also not insinuating what I'm about to say goes on at the ranges I do frequent. All have been well run.

For me It's approximately 400 miles to Elbow Lake MN and Humboldt SD, about 700 to Deep Creek, 800+ down to Vapor Trail, all one way. Elbow Lake & Humboldt are THE closest long range IBS bench rest matches to me. A big part of the reason I shoot more 600 than 1000 yard is the opportunity to shoot 8 targets a day and 16 targets on a two match weekend vs 4 & 8 at 1000 yard matches and the shorter drive to the 600 yard venues.

All the matches I've had the privilege of shooting were well run, sure there has been a glitch or two here or there but that's to be expected.

At Deep Creek it's assumed not asked that you will do pit duty and I actually enjoy it. What I have noticed at all the ranges I've shot is certain people have certain jobs and I've never been asked to help.

I've willingly helped when I saw something that needed done but again was never asked to help. I realize there is a lot of work putting on a match and a few people are doing most of that work but I bet at any match most would be happy to help if they were asked.

My thanks to anyone who has helped run any match I've ever shot I realize it's probably a thankless job you are doing for the love of the sport and the chance to compete. I appreciate it and if you would like some help from me just ask.

 

[Stan Taylor]

I want to state up front that I am not currently a member at this range. The reason for that is very simple. It’s not because I’m cheap and don’t want to spend the money. It’s not because I have anything against the range or it’s shooters, I think both are awesome. The reason is I that have other shooting opportunities that are closer and afford more shooting on any given day. It truly is difficult to justify traveling 7 hours to shoot at best one relay and a shoot-off. I really like squeezing the trigger and I would bet there isn’t another shooter at Williamsport who doesn’t!!!

So it appears this discussion has brought up not only regular matches but the World Open as well. Personally I would be more likely to attend the regular matches if they were double matches with no shoot offs. That would guarantee everyone got to shoot more frequently on either Saturday, Sunday or both. It would also allow Williamsport to come up with some 20 target aggregates in the course of a season. No one will ever win a 20 target aggregate by always getting the best relays.

As far as the World Open, I and many others I know, agree that an aggregate of three targets would help negate lucky relay draws. Keep the modified system or go back to the old scoring system, it really doesn’t matter to me. Everyone is competing under the same rules anyway. A four target aggregate would be even better but that would probably require making it a three day match with three alternating relays on Friday and Saturday with one light and one heavy on Sunday.

If anyone reading this shot 2021 IBS 600 Yard Nationals, they saw how quickly a match can move along. 100 shooters can shoot 5 or 6 relays (Maybe 7 I can’t remember!) shooting a total of 8 targets in one day, actually in like 6-7 hours. Two targets shot at each of four trips to the bench. Again, please don’t take this as a criticism, just something that may make people think about how things could possibly be run more efficiently.

So right now if you are a regular shooter at Williamsport you may be thinking “great, a non-member wants us to change things and not enough people volunteer to do the work already”. Here is my answer to that.

With more shooting, you will end up drawing in more shooters, especially shooters that have long drives. Shooters who drive long distances to shoot are usually pretty serious about shooting and more likely to volunteer if it means they get to shoot more. I for one would try to do more if I were attending more matches and actually began to “Feel” like a member. One time when I was a member, they asked everyone to come inside for a vote. I can’t remember what we were even voting on but I abstained because I did feel right voting when it seemed like I was a newbie to the range.

I know change is difficult, usually more difficult for some than for others. If you have made it this far into this long post, all I ask is that everyone keep an open mind and remember how crucial it is to stick together as shooters in this political environment.

Again, I am not trying to stir the pot. I’m simply trying to have an open discussion that is civilized. Remember, nothing we do in life has the approval of everyone. All we can do is make suggestions and allow the majority to determine what comes of them.

I would be glad to have a personal conversation with anyone who would care to discuss things. Just PM me your cell and I will make myself available.

Thanks for listening,
Dave.

That’s interesting to say the least in West Virginia at White horse this year if this new agenda item passes that the IBS put in place there is a strong direction that we will be shooting probably a two target aggregate program ,And being you like that program we will be looking forward to having you all there.