Will we see a factory 22 Creedmoor?

[Dale264]

With all the recent interest I see on the forum here will we see a factory 22 Creedmoor rifle and ammo offering in the future? If so when do you think?

 

[shoot4fun]

Hornady does offer brass and I'm sure two things drive the factory loaded ammo decision. One, what is the trend for their die and brass sales volume? Up, down or unchanged?
Two, is anyone poised to offer factory built rifles chambered for it?
Well, maybe a third (in fairly typical Hornady fashion) is the announcement of some ultra elite military unit signing a contract for X-million rounds for their newly developed special purpose rifle.
Also, @Rob01 would know the lowdown on what the Hornady people have in mind for 22CM.

 

[Ranger188]

It started as a long range coyote round. Now for the last couple years, bullet makers
have come along ways in high BC 22cal bullets. Lots of people jumped on the 22 creed
bandwagon (me too) But you hardly see anyone rebarreling for a 2nd or 3 time.
It's a barrel burner and not what many wanted it to be. It's a good hunting, low round count round.
I don't see many factories jumping on to sign up for the problems that go with it.
My 2 cents.

 

[Oso]

22 Creedmoor already has widespread acceptance ... its called a 22-250. Yes, it is a barrel burner with 1000 rounds of accuracy. I don't think its likely that major manufacturers will start mass producing 22 Creedmoor... limited demand that already filled by longstanding champion rooted in Varmint Shooting at hyper-velocity.

Either of these 2 cartridges would greatly benefit from the newly announced barrel metal that Bartlein just announced with 2x-3x barrel life. The price premium over their standard barrel is money well spent, because you'll still save money not having to replace and chamber a 2nd barrel.

 

[Walt Krafft]

The 22-250 or the AI version, does every thing the creed does.

 

[Dale264]

The 22-250 or the AI version, does every thing the creed does.

I don’t disagree but you don’t see factory ammo offerings heavier than 64gr for these cartridges. The factory 22-250s out there can’t take advantage of the heavy for caliber high BC bullets because manufacturers aren’t willing to put fast with barrels on these guns. I think if the 22 Creedmoor was Saami’d and manufacturers made them, they’d go with a faster twist barrel.

 

[Oso]

I don’t disagree but you don’t see factory ammo offerings heavier than 64gr for these cartridges. The factory 22-250s out there can’t take advantage of the heavy for caliber high BC bullets because manufacturers aren’t willing to put fast with barrels on these guns. I think if the 22 Creedmoor was Saami’d and manufacturers made them, they’d go with a faster twist barrel.

Manufacturers make rifles that have enough sustainable demand to be profitable. Since the 1930's, the 22-250 has been outfitted with slower twist barrels to satisfy primary demand of shooters - high velocity and flat trajectory to shoot varmints, such as coyotes or prairie dogs. The preferred bullet is light weight 40gr - 50gr bullets that leave small holes for pelt hunting or due to small body mass of prey that may require a fragmenting bullets, such as Vmax. Whereas, heavy .224 bullets are a recent invention.

Creedmoor namesake is relatively new and associated with PRS style shooting. Anyone interested in chasing heavy .224 will automatically gravitate toward Creedmoor name... there just isn't enough demand to commit a production volume. Easy enough to buy a .224 bore 1:7twist barel and have it chambered in 22 Creedmoor. What I think you will find is 6mm is better for heavies... 3,000 fps is plenty fast with 105gr-115gr bullet. It fights the wind better and offers 1500 round barrel life.

 

[oht]

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/84679

 

[284winner]

Hornady already offers the LR eld bullets heavy for caliber including the .224 bullets. I'm sure loaded ammunition will follow eventually offering the 75/80/88 ELDs. Copper creek and spark ammunition offers 22 CM loaded ammo. The real question is, will gun manufacturers offer fast enough barrels to run the ammo. It'd be in the best interest to offer them as the trend is leaning toward heavy for caliber bullets, ammunition and fast barrels. Slow barrels are the last century fade. Today it's all about LR and who makes the fastest coolest cartridge.

 

[xswanted]

Yep we will.

My guess it’ll be standardized soon and you’ll see initial offerings from Hornady with the 73 ELDX loaded for a hunting round and you’ll see the 88 ELDM loaded for target shooting.

I would assume the guns will use a 7.5 twist barrel and things would start with a “hunting” weight rifle as well as some kind of PRS type gun.

Any way you look at it though, once the chamber pressure is standardized and we see actual load data, it’ll put a bit of a damper on the guys who are getting 3500fps or faster with 80 grain bullets.

 

[PhilC]

Some interesting information here - https://www.petersoncartridge.com/technical-articles/posts/2020/april/22-creedmoor-load-data/

I agree on factory rifles being offered in 22CM.

 

[Bill K]

The 22-250 or the AI version, does every thing the creed does.

The work just fine, and equal the Creedmoor and also the 20 Nosler. And they are already here, brass and all.

 

[Evlshnngns]

Some interesting information here - https://www.petersoncartridge.com/technical-articles/posts/2020/april/22-creedmoor-load-data/

I agree on factory rifles being offered in 22CM.

That was a great article for anyone running an overbore 224. They pushed 80k+ psi twice to prove how much you should trust random data off the internet.

 

[PhilC]

It sure opened my eyes on load development for my 22CM.

 

[WyleWD]

It started as a long range coyote round. Now for the last couple years, bullet makers
have come along ways in high BC 22cal bullets. Lots of people jumped on the 22 creed
bandwagon (me too) But you hardly see anyone rebarreling for a 2nd or 3 time.
It's a barrel burner and not what many wanted it to be. It's a good hunting, low round count round.
I don't see many factories jumping on to sign up for the problems that go with it.
My 2 cents.

+1^^^ As long as you load it safely this will be a pretty decent round. Agree with the last 3 sentences 100%. WD

 

[284winner]

Yep we will.

My guess it’ll be standardized soon and you’ll see initial offerings from Hornady with the 73 ELDX loaded for a hunting round and you’ll see the 88 ELDM loaded for target shooting.

I would assume the guns will use a 7.5 twist barrel and things would start with a “hunting” weight rifle as well as some kind of PRS type gun.

Any way you look at it though, once the chamber pressure is standardized and we see actual load data, it’ll put a bit of a damper on the guys who are getting 3500fps or faster with 80 grain bullets.

I think your right about that. I also think it'll be a bit slower option like an 8 twist barrel. Seeing how many Hornady .224 bullets are exploding with fast twist barrels due to high RPM and velocity combined, unless the thicken the jackets, the next best thing is a bit slower barrel option. All there .224 bullets can be stabilized by an 8 twist barrel. They call for a 7 twist barrel but my 8 twist stabilizes the 88 eld at 650ft elevation.

 

[fyrewall]

I am real happy with my 7.7 twist .22-.250's (4 of them) and use 75 ELDM's, 68 HPBT's & 70 & 75 Berger VLD's with RL 16 or H4350.

Never had 53 VMax bullets blow up at 3700 fps but accuracy was not good out of a 7.7 twist (spinning like crazy).

I sure would consider a 7.7 twist .22 CM for use with the 75 ELDM's because of the case shape and velocity increase up to 200 fps.

https://www.petersoncartridge.com/technical-articles/posts/2020/april/22-creedmoor-load-data/

Using the Hornady 4DOF calculator the "gyro" values at 3000 fps out of a 7 twist for the 88 ELDM start out at 1.42. Using the same calculator with same other stuff (sea level & standard) the "gyro" values for a 75 ELDM at 3200 fps with a 7.7 twist start out at 1.45. I get more than satisfactory performance with the 75 ELDM, 7.7 twist at 3200 and my guess is that performance using a 88 ELDM, 7 twist would be similar.

More barrel erosion using the .22 CM compared to the .22-.250 but how much?

Unless conventional thinking changes, .22 CM factory chamberings won't happen soon.

 

[Hohn]

I wouldn’t rule out factory ammo for .22cm. Far less practical or useful rounds have been given factory ammo.

But the 22cm to me represents the limit (or past) just how much Sectional density you can push so fast. At some point the pursuit of flatness becomes self defeating and I think a 6mm is a better choice.

 

[fyrewall]

After shooting the 75 AMax/ELDM and 75 Berger for the last 5 years at about 3200 fps from a .22-.250 I would appreciate another 150-200 fps and the .22 CM would provide this. About like the .22-.250 AI that has been around for decades but no fireforming for the .22 CM.

Conventional thinking has hot .22's shooting 53-55 grain bullets from 12 &14 twist barrels - the .22 CM can do this but I think the niche is for 75 & heavier bullets.

"Pursuit of flatness" is not the object. Economy, light recoil and effectiveness for the task at hand are.

I can buy 100 75gr .224 ELDM bullets for about $23/100, somewhat less than 87 VMax's. Powder charges are 10 - 15 less than that 6mms producing similar velocities. An equivalent 6mm 105 grain match bullet would be about $35/100. My .22-.250 with 75 ELDM's, SD = .214, @ 3200 fps is somewhat inferior to my 6mm AI with 87 VMax's, SD = .210 @ 3400 fps. Another 200 fps would surpass the 6mm AI with 87 VMax's @ 3400 - with less recoil, blast and expense.

https://www.petersoncartridge.com/technical-articles/posts/2020/april/22-creedmoor-load-data/

 

[284winner]

After shooting the 75 AMax/ELDM and 75 Berger for the last 5 years at about 3200 fps from a .22-.250 I would appreciate another 150-200 fps and the .22 CM would provide this. About like the .22-.250 AI that has been around for decades but no fireforming for the .22 CM.

Conventional thinking has hot .22's shooting 53-55 grain bullets from 12 &14 twist barrels - the .22 CM can do this but I think the niche is for 75 & heavier bullets.

"Pursuit of flatness" is not the object. Economy, light recoil and effectiveness for the task at hand are.

I can buy 100 75gr .224 ELDM bullets for about $23/100, somewhat less than 87 VMax's. Powder charges are 10 - 15 less than that 6mms producing similar velocities. An equivalent 6mm 105 grain match bullet would be about $35/100. My .22-.250 with 75 ELDM's, SD = .214, @ 3200 fps is somewhat inferior to my 6mm AI with 87 VMax's, SD = .210 @ 3400 fps. Another 200 fps would surpass the 6mm AI with 87 VMax's @ 3400 - with less recoil, blast and expense.

https://www.petersoncartridge.com/technical-articles/posts/2020/april/22-creedmoor-load-data/

IMO... The 22 CM and 22-250 AI are nearly identical other than fireforming. In that scenario, the 22 CM would be my first next choice.