Back in the a wildcat was basically any cartridge you couldn’t buy factory ammo, then basically anything you had to form brass, just curious in your mind what determines a wildcat now
Wildcat Cartridge Definition?
- Thread starter Bottom Fodder
- Start date
Adam in WI
Practically lives here
I was told once that a wildcat requires more advanced reforming techniques. A simple neck up or neck down was labeled (perhaps derisively) a housecat.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
To me and IMHO, a wildcat IS a round that can't be "bought over the counter". No matter what you or I come up with, if we look deep enough, somewhere along the way, someone has probably already done it, in one form or another. But HEY, reinventing the wheel is the fun part. 
You get an idea in your head and no matter what someone else says, you have to do it yourself to find out. We're NEVER too old to make mistakes and maybe learn something new?
You get an idea in your head and no matter what someone else says, you have to do it yourself to find out. We're NEVER too old to make mistakes and maybe learn something new?
Fast14riot
Gold $$ Contributor
Any reason this is the 3rd time reposting the exact same wording and topic in different subs here on AS since June that I can remember?
Just for practice and to see if anybody else knew that I guess
If I stop reading at your comma in the first sentence then there’s more wild cats than ever since the inability to purchase factory ammo.
I bought one box of factory ammo in maybe the last 25 years or more..
You all are close but there are lots of obsolete chamberings that at one time were popular that you can't buy ammo for over the counter today. Maybe a cartridge that you never could buy ammo over the counter???? guys were talking about forming wildcats from 225 Winchester on this forum the other day. I worked on a trim crew with a guy from Penn. back in the late 1970s and he hadn't been able to find ammo for it for 10 years back then.
South Africa will tell you it’s a wildcat if it isn’t what the head stamp reads. No wild cats are allowed when you hunt there.
My version of a wild cat is one that I developed and the only
one shooting them. Lots of wild cats out there that everyone
shoots. So what's the point. Mine, no one has, and hope they
don't. And If someone did , It would'nt be so wild, would it ??
So basically lets just say, if you have to make brass for it, call it
a wild cat. If commercial brass is now available ?? Knock that cat
off the list......
one shooting them. Lots of wild cats out there that everyone
shoots. So what's the point. Mine, no one has, and hope they
don't. And If someone did , It would'nt be so wild, would it ??
So basically lets just say, if you have to make brass for it, call it
a wild cat. If commercial brass is now available ?? Knock that cat
off the list......
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
or, see if anybody else was listening?
And, if there's no SAAMI listing, does that make "it" a wildcat?
Last edited:
Or maybe get ‘em off “ clean brass or pointed bullets in a tube magazine threadsor, see if anybody else was listening?
My feelings would say that if "commercial" brass is available, I would
not call it a wildcat. Key word would be "commercial". We could argue
about SAMMI but I'd rather not......LOL.....Now you could muddy up my
statement by looking up wild cat tubes. Yes, companies make commercial
brass just for the sake of wild catting. Maddening, I'll tell ya'.....
Bottom Fodder -
Howdy !
IMHO -
In a broad sense...." wildcats " are the result of modifications made to a " factory case ", Or.... are a new cartridge not invented by an arms / ammo" factory " . Most of the time, wildcats are the idea or invention of an individual, or private individuals.
As regards modifications made to an existing case..... the discussion quickly becomes
" what " and/or " which " modifications people consider adequate enough.... to qualify the modified case as a " wildcat ".
But, a lot of the time; the intended purpose of the wildcatter was/is to hit a certain case capacity; also often including certain case shaping; made for the perceived benefits.
As long as the wildcatter is content w/ the wildcat; that's pretty much all that matters.
With regards,
357Mag
Strictly speaking any version of a factory design that isn't compliant with SAAMI / CIP specs (and its chamber likewise) is no longer factory and therefore 'wildcat'. So lots of people with tight-neck chambers that need brass turned, longer than CIP/SAAMI freebores are running 'wildcats', in theory at least. (And to a certain extent in practice too. In the UK where 'proofing' before sale is mandatory, the proof houses will only test and stamp up a firearm chambered for a factory cartridge if the chamber falls within CIP tolerances. So a competition rifle builder submitting a tight-neck 308 Win, or anything else, has to advise the proof house, supply a couple of neck-turned cases, and it is tested and certified as a non-standard cartridge with the throat diameter included in the barrel stamp.)
As the standards bodies even specify the rifling twist rate, even more rifles are (on-paper anyway) non-standard. This isn't always silly semantics as today's 308 Win and 223 Rem FTR handloads bear little resemblance to the factory model specs, as in MUCH greater COALs for a start. When did you last see a long-range F-Class or BR shooter use 284 Win cartridges loaded to SAAMI 2.800" COAL for a SAAMI-compliant chamber? ...... and so on.
Likewise if you're shooting a cartridge for which there is no 'official' specification, it's outside of the list of standardised cartridges, so is usually a 'wildcat' as that's the most widely used word for non-factory cartridges. Of course, next week Remington, Winchester, Norma, Lapua, Hornady or whoever can adopt it and submit the specs and case/chamber drawings to SAAMI or CIP, and it's no longer a 'wildcat'. (cf 6.5-284, a 'wildcat' for a few decades until Norma adopted it in one particular version.) The 6.5mm Grendel was a non-standard cartridge for years until Hornady and Lapua adopted it and submitted it to the standards bodies. Strictly speaking the Grendel wasn't a wildcat but a 'proprietary design' - a half-way house between factory cartridges that any company can produce and enthusiasts' 'wildcats' and was fully specified, but the designer kept it in a patented form so that any company wishing to adopt it had to pay to do so. (Unless they changed the shoulder angle by a couple of degrees or knocked the shoulders back a few thou' as the 6mm Hornady ARC does to the original Whitley wildcat version.)
Basically, people (and governments such as @Uthink Uknow 's South Africa) can make up their own definitions of the term to suit their own whims for the simple reason there is NO definition, so any one definition is a valid and as logical (or illogical!) as any other. As good a thing to argue about in the clubhouse as anything else as long as people don't get too serious about it!
As the standards bodies even specify the rifling twist rate, even more rifles are (on-paper anyway) non-standard. This isn't always silly semantics as today's 308 Win and 223 Rem FTR handloads bear little resemblance to the factory model specs, as in MUCH greater COALs for a start. When did you last see a long-range F-Class or BR shooter use 284 Win cartridges loaded to SAAMI 2.800" COAL for a SAAMI-compliant chamber? ...... and so on.
Likewise if you're shooting a cartridge for which there is no 'official' specification, it's outside of the list of standardised cartridges, so is usually a 'wildcat' as that's the most widely used word for non-factory cartridges. Of course, next week Remington, Winchester, Norma, Lapua, Hornady or whoever can adopt it and submit the specs and case/chamber drawings to SAAMI or CIP, and it's no longer a 'wildcat'. (cf 6.5-284, a 'wildcat' for a few decades until Norma adopted it in one particular version.) The 6.5mm Grendel was a non-standard cartridge for years until Hornady and Lapua adopted it and submitted it to the standards bodies. Strictly speaking the Grendel wasn't a wildcat but a 'proprietary design' - a half-way house between factory cartridges that any company can produce and enthusiasts' 'wildcats' and was fully specified, but the designer kept it in a patented form so that any company wishing to adopt it had to pay to do so. (Unless they changed the shoulder angle by a couple of degrees or knocked the shoulders back a few thou' as the 6mm Hornady ARC does to the original Whitley wildcat version.)
Basically, people (and governments such as @Uthink Uknow 's South Africa) can make up their own definitions of the term to suit their own whims for the simple reason there is NO definition, so any one definition is a valid and as logical (or illogical!) as any other. As good a thing to argue about in the clubhouse as anything else as long as people don't get too serious about it!
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.