Why no .25 caliber variant of the .308 Win?

[CanusLatransSnpr]

I don't have any of the fancy quickload, or similar, software for calculating velocities, bullet drop, wind drift etc. so I don't have a way of comparing the two. However, some sort of software and a chrony are on my wishlist so I can figure out ballistics cards for my rifles and compare them to real world performance ! I think such tools would improve my efficacy as a shooter ! I do see some sort of a quarter bore in my future though, just need to decide which one! What ever route I go I know I can make the cartridge from some good brass whether it be Lapua or Norma!

Mike

 

[Octopus]

I have been shooting the 25 Cal since 1963. Now days I shoot the 25 BR, the 25 BR Long and the Jon Deer. To make the Jon Deer chamber I just run 25 BR reamer in to 243 length.

To make my Jon Deer cases I just fire form the 243 Laupa brass. In a longer barrel the Jon Deer shoots like a laser. The 26" 1-10 twist barrel with 51 grs of RE 19 will shoot the 115 gr Combined Technologies bullet over 3,300 fps. Every deer shot with this barrel was dead standing. So far with 300+ rounds down the barrel I have not throat erosion.

The Jon Deer is about the same as a 25-308 AI. Shoulder angle is 30 degrees. Since I make the chamber by running the 25 BR reamer in deeper the chamber has no taper near the head.

At present I have six 25 BR barrels. I like the 1-14 and 1-12 twist for most applications. My 31" 1-12T Barlein barrel is deadly out to 485 yards which is my range limit. At 100-300 yards the 1-14 twist barrels shooting Berger or Bibs bullets will beat most of the 6 PPC and 30 BR rifles when the wind is difficult. My 25 BR barrels are mostly used on Panda, Stiller and Rem 40X actions fitted on Edge stocks with 36 to 50 power scopes. (These are precision 13# competition rifles and not hunting rifles.)

I find the 25 does better in the wind than either the 6PPC or the 30 BR. Recoil is much less than the 30 BR which is a plus for me.

If you plan to build a 25 email me and I will be glad to share my experience. There are some very good 25 bullets available. The FL sizing Dies are sometimes hard to sort out for the more rare chambers like the Jon Deer.

 

[Clod-NC]

Hi all

Well what a thread!!!!So interesting,I'm very keen on this caliber,so much as to order a hunting rig from Mc Gowen in 25/06(26",1:10,semi heavy contour,on a Mauser inspired Zoly action) which I'm not sure will finally come out...And I'm doing this from New Caledonia(little place close to Aussie & NZ,South Pacific),but Dan J Wiinn's(Mc gowen's main man) attitude nonwithstanding I'm ready to try a new project with them,based on the 257 Bob necked up to 6.5 and improved 30°(I call it 6.5x57 imp 30°).Octopus,if I get you right your Jon Deer is a 25/08 improved 30°,that should be a hell of a shooter I reckon.I'm definitely sure the 25 hasn't proferred its last word yet,it's just waiting there,lurking in the shadows for sensible people to look it up honest and frank...We'll be hearing from it someday,it's too damn effective to be plainly discarded.Have a nice week gentlemen.

 

[jonbearman]

I had a 6.5x.257 in a jap rifle some years ago and I knew someone who improved it to a 30 degree shoulder. The 6.5x.257 was real popular in the 60's when surplus jap rifles flooded the US market but alas there wasnt any good ammo so they chambered it using the roberts case and they were really accurate.

 

[treeman]

I couldn't beleive it took the second page for some one to mention the 250-3000 ack-imp with that cartridge around there is no comercial market for 25-08 it'd be dead in the water although it is a great cartridge. I've had both 250 and 25-06 and they both bring home the vineson!!

 

[necchi]

I can't beleive in now 4 pages that nobodys has mentioned the 260 Rem, :-\

 

[25AI260]

i guess it is about the .25 caliber variant ........of the .308 Win?

not .264 cal...

 

[25AI260]

actually the 260 case was mentioned...

by the happy Bird day to all ya all...

 

[Litetrigger]

Check Ackley's handbook. He called it the .25 Super, and also says it "has little to recommend it over existing .25 caliber cartridges.." He probably had the .250 Savage in mind when he wrote this.

 

[25AI260]

the Humdinger
case capacity of-[H20].. .243-54 , 7-08- 56 , .308- 56 , Humdinger- 59
check Cartridges of the World.. # 10 & 11.

 

[Webster]

Don't we have enough calibers? As I got older I decided anything I bought had to be known as a cartridge that was inherently accurate, not just different.

 

[Ggmac]

25 Souper in the mid sixties ,I still haverifleman magazine with the specs . I think the 243 killed it.

 

[STP]

Apoligize in kicking the can down the road further, but I have a 3 die set by RCBS that is marked 06 to 25 LW SU (date code C.)

The first die is a forming die using 30-06 cases that when sized, the extra poking above the die is hacksawed off, then filed smooth. Carefully chamfered, the case is now 2.030 in length, but not yet necked down to 25cal.

On to the FL die, which is adjusted down to lightly contact the #2 shellholder that reduces the still 30cal neck down to 25cal. (Imperial die wax used for both steps.)

Dimensions at each step:

After form die and hacksaw and chamfering= 2.030
After FL die= 2.038

Datum length essentially the same= 2.892
I used my standard 6in calipers and a fired/decapped 44mag case. (Poor man`s method )
Shoulder angle appears to be the same as the 243Win, yet fireforming would yield an answer. But which chamber would that be? Who knows.

I know there were numerous versions of the 25 Souper. A call to RCBS inquiring as to the date code rendered the response that records on hand do not go that far back. In the case of these dies go, who the heck is LW?? Back in "those" days, RCBS would make a die set (in this case a 3 die set) to whomever.

Just another piece of the wildcat history puzzle yet to be discovered.

Regards,

Scott

 

[jonbearman]

There was an ad a couple days ago on the 24 hour campfire for 25-.308 rcbs dies for sale.So someone must have tried it.

 

[GSPV]

Sure, they are out there and it's a great cartridge. But, it'd be squeezed out the way the 16 gauge is squeezed by the 20 and 12.

 

[Albany Mountain]

I was at the gun shop the other night, torturing myself to be honest, and I happened upon a Ruger M77 Hawkeye chambered in .257 Roberts. Looked it over and put it back on the rack.

On my way home I got to thinking and then it hit me, I haven't seen a .25 caliber variant of the .308 Win! I understand that there isn't many .25 calibers out there but, it just amazed me that there isn't a critter like this out there. Or atleast standardized anyways! There's 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm variants. Why no .25 caliber variants? Just curious!

Thanks,
Mike

The 243 held too much promise to develop another identical cartridge.