Why no .25 caliber variant of the .308 Win?
- Thread starter CanusLatransSnpr
- Start date
Wow! I didn't think I would stir up this much conversation about quarter bores 
! All of you have made very valid points and the beauty of it all is that there hasn't been any arguments yet 
! I will agree that it is a shame that the quarter bores haven't had as much popularity as its 6, 6.5, and 7mm counterparts but, it is what it is! Its been on my mind, for the past month or so, about trying one of the .25 caliber cartridges but, not sure which way to go? Thanks again all for the replys and lets keep this going! It has been fun!
Mike
! All of you have made very valid points and the beauty of it all is that there hasn't been any arguments yet ! I will agree that it is a shame that the quarter bores haven't had as much popularity as its 6, 6.5, and 7mm counterparts but, it is what it is! Its been on my mind, for the past month or so, about trying one of the .25 caliber cartridges but, not sure which way to go? Thanks again all for the replys and lets keep this going! It has been fun!Mike
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
Any of them are good & fun to shoot as well as effective. My personal is the 257AI only because it's a really good fit for 98 action, not much messing around for length or feeding. Also runs good velocity with less powder & recoil than the 25-06. The only reason that I quit using them was I started hunting where a lot of the shots were in excess of 300 yds. Not that they won't kill deer out there as they will, but a hot 30 or 7mm is a whole bunch flatter. But it also comes with the added benefits of more noise & recoil.
Thanks Larry! I have a long action 700 that I'm going to build off of, one of these days, so length won't be an issue! Also, where I'm at this rig will be for varmint hunting primarily so effectiveness on game isn't an issue either.
Mike
Mike
There is one that has been around for as long as I can remember. The 250 Humdinger. I purchased one built on a Rem 700 from a gunsmith in Glendale Az. It was originally built by Bob Brackney. It is the 243 blown out to virtually no taper with a 45 degree shoulder. With a 23" barrel, it had quite a bit more horsepower than the 25-06 and 257 Roberts AI. I ended up selling it to a friend in Sierra Vista who still hunts with it to this day.
JRS said:
A .243 Win. blown out to .257 is exactly the same as a .308 necked down to .257, isn't it? After all, the .243 is a necked-down .308, just as the .244/6mm Rem. is a necked-down 7X57. Hard to see how it could out-power a .25/06, which has more powder capacity. That said, the .250 Humdinger sounds like a dandy cartridge, and I'd love to see it--or something similar--in factory round.
i found after many trails with a hydrualic form die the a .260 case makes a very nice humdigger case
a .308 case will get 56grm of capasity.. the blown out case to the hum-d as i call it gets 59grs
i can launch 100gr Nosler around 3200fps... using H4831sc /210 fed.
---
in the pic from the left .243 .250 hum-d .308
a .308 case will get 56grm of capasity.. the blown out case to the hum-d as i call it gets 59grs
i can launch 100gr Nosler around 3200fps... using H4831sc /210 fed.
---
in the pic from the left .243 .250 hum-d .308
Attachments
If quarter bores are less popular then why does Sierra make nearly the same number of bullet options in .257 than in .243?
I think they are very popular for hunting, just not popular for precision shooting.
16 years ago Gale McMillan talked me out of a 25 Souper and into a .243AI because of the better precision bullet selection overall. His comment to me was that the Souper was great if you had alot of .308 brass laying around, but you'd be better served with a 25-06 if you didn't have available .308 brass.
FWIW, I still have a.243AI and I've had a number of 25-06s...including one that will be finished as a light weight hunting rifle in October. Before I put together a 25 Souper, I'd rather put together a 6.5x47 Lapua.
MQ1
I think they are very popular for hunting, just not popular for precision shooting.
16 years ago Gale McMillan talked me out of a 25 Souper and into a .243AI because of the better precision bullet selection overall. His comment to me was that the Souper was great if you had alot of .308 brass laying around, but you'd be better served with a 25-06 if you didn't have available .308 brass.
FWIW, I still have a.243AI and I've had a number of 25-06s...including one that will be finished as a light weight hunting rifle in October. Before I put together a 25 Souper, I'd rather put together a 6.5x47 Lapua.
MQ1
"""It most certainly is the same. The BIG difference is: necking the 243 case to 25 caliber is so much easier than necking down the 308 brass to 25 caliber. Makes sense to me """"
if your making a .25 souper your right...
but not so in the humdinger case, if your fire forming for the hummer you need to make a false shoulder .. so the neck needs to be larger near the shoulder.. also if your die forming for the hummer the whole length of the neck needs to be larger so it will seal in the die... that where the .260 case come in .. that make it easy...
if your making a .25 souper your right...
but not so in the humdinger case, if your fire forming for the hummer you need to make a false shoulder .. so the neck needs to be larger near the shoulder.. also if your die forming for the hummer the whole length of the neck needs to be larger so it will seal in the die... that where the .260 case come in .. that make it easy...
25 Souper is a 308 Win with a 25cal neck, with no other changes. 6.5 or 7-08 brass, 6.5 or 7-08 bushing die with 25cal bushing and a 25 Souper chamber and you are set to go. Its all about what lenght of action you want to uses. In a short action a 250-3000AI will do what a 25 Souper can do and in a long action a plain 257 Rob is 6% larger. Case capacity in Gr. of H2O---25 Souper 52.41----250-3000 45.9-----250-3000AI 51----257 R 55.2---257 R AI 59/
RichG-
To form the Humdinger brass, you SIMPLY neck up the 243 brass and fire form it in the Humdinger chamber. Just as one would for the Ackley improved ;D I owned one, fire formed for it, and passed it on to a friend who continues to do the same
No false shoulder, no form die. It is essentially an AI with a 45 degree shoulder rather than 40 degree shoulder.
To form the Humdinger brass, you SIMPLY neck up the 243 brass and fire form it in the Humdinger chamber. Just as one would for the Ackley improved ;D I owned one, fire formed for it, and passed it on to a friend who continues to do the same
No false shoulder, no form die. It is essentially an AI with a 45 degree shoulder rather than 40 degree shoulder.
Fat albert, Glad someone finally mentioned the 250AI 
. A super efficient cartridge for CLS's varminting needs I would think. I'd build one right now if dies were readily available. No necking up or down just load'em & shoot'em to fireform on critters. Hmmm? I wonder where you could get a custom die set REASONABLEY ???
. A super efficient cartridge for CLS's varminting needs I would think. I'd build one right now if dies were readily available. No necking up or down just load'em & shoot'em to fireform on critters. Hmmm? I wonder where you could get a custom die set REASONABLEY ???Reddinggotcha said:Fat albert, Glad someone finally mentioned the 250AI
turbokeen
DAVE
Re 250/3000 ackley, i use 6.5x47 Lapua brass ( how good is that ! )
also i hav a 25/06
and hav just got a 25 WSSM to try .... so i guess im a fan of the 25 cal.
the 25 Souper would be fantastic also using Lapua small primer 308 brass and ofcourse it would feed well unlike most ackleys
my 2c dave.
also i hav a 25/06
and hav just got a 25 WSSM to try .... so i guess im a fan of the 25 cal.
the 25 Souper would be fantastic also using Lapua small primer 308 brass and ofcourse it would feed well unlike most ackleys
my 2c dave.
RichG-
I purchased one built on a Rem 700 from a gunsmith in Glendale Az. It was originally built by Bob Brackney.
To form the Humdinger brass, you SIMPLY neck up the 243 brass and fire form it in the Humdinger chamber. Just as one would for the Ackley improved I owned one, fire formed for it, and passed it on to a friend who continues to do the same No false shoulder, no form die. It is essentially an AI with a 45 degree shoulder rather than 40 degree shoulder.
JSH
you may have owned 1 .. but i went threw the building stages an do make my brass.. still own it an shoot it, as far as fire forming goes.. to get the most out of the case on the first fire time you need to have pressure on the lands w/the bullet an the brass against the bolt face to do it Right... you don't want to develope them little donuts in side the case.. i guess you already know that
used brass needs annealing sometime they Will split in various places along the shoulder an neck... new brass isn't always perfect either
hydrualic is the way to go for me ... i'd rather have the brass split if it will in the die an not in a custom target gun... it isn't just changing the angle of the shoulder from 30* ~ 45* the case grows almost an 1/8... the only one thing i did see when i fireformed was you get a longer neck.. but pre- knowing that my reamer was made for the diff.....
yes you can SIMPLY fireform the way you discribed... but its really old school
with that said it seems such a waste to fireform at cost of bullets powder primer in todays market ...but i guess you could also do it with cream of wheat, oatmeal, cornmeal done that too.. love the smell but hate the cleaning
by the way... .250 Humdinger was original built in 1998 in Australia
I purchased one built on a Rem 700 from a gunsmith in Glendale Az. It was originally built by Bob Brackney.
To form the Humdinger brass, you SIMPLY neck up the 243 brass and fire form it in the Humdinger chamber. Just as one would for the Ackley improved I owned one, fire formed for it, and passed it on to a friend who continues to do the same No false shoulder, no form die. It is essentially an AI with a 45 degree shoulder rather than 40 degree shoulder.
JSH
you may have owned 1 .. but i went threw the building stages an do make my brass.. still own it an shoot it, as far as fire forming goes.. to get the most out of the case on the first fire time you need to have pressure on the lands w/the bullet an the brass against the bolt face to do it Right... you don't want to develope them little donuts in side the case.. i guess you already know that
used brass needs annealing sometime they Will split in various places along the shoulder an neck... new brass isn't always perfect either
hydrualic is the way to go for me ... i'd rather have the brass split if it will in the die an not in a custom target gun... it isn't just changing the angle of the shoulder from 30* ~ 45* the case grows almost an 1/8... the only one thing i did see when i fireformed was you get a longer neck.. but pre- knowing that my reamer was made for the diff.....
yes you can SIMPLY fireform the way you discribed... but its really old school
with that said it seems such a waste to fireform at cost of bullets powder primer in todays market ...but i guess you could also do it with cream of wheat, oatmeal, cornmeal done that too.. love the smell but hate the cleaning
by the way... .250 Humdinger was original built in 1998 in Australia
Gotcha, couldn't a fellow just use 22-250 AI bushing dies and change the seater stem out to accomodate a 250-3000 AI? I'm always thinking of a way to make things possible ! BTW, thanks for the suggestion! Never even thought of that one!
Mike
! BTW, thanks for the suggestion! Never even thought of that one!Mike
CLS, Well, congrats on the OOTB thinking. but the minimum body Taper of the 250AI compared to the 250 Sav. & 22-250 wouldn't allow the case into the 22-250 die, or a 250 Sav. die for that matter. I chkd. the Redding site after JRS's suggestion & low & behold they do have an inexpensive die set in 250AI. They seem to be available on a 1st come, 1st served basis. (limited production) They also have a more advanced die set w/ Micro seater etc. Check the comparisons of 250-3000 VS. 250AI. Some amazing improvements in velocity especially w/ varmint weight bullets. I would think (don't have data handy) the 75 grn Hornady could exceed 3500fps, I think? I'll certainly be reminded if I'm wrong
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.