Why is the Savage Target Action better than other "budget" actions?

[Grimstod]

Actually shortening a spring increases the rate which in effect stiffens it if its still long enough.

I think you are talking about forgong a new spring. Not shortening an existing one and using it over the same travel range.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I think you are talking about forgong a new spring. Not shortening an existing one and using it over the same travel range.

No im talking about shortening a spring. You may just not notice it.

I found this for you:

https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs-calculations/

 

[kountryboy2]

Its my experience that even a small pin benefits from a full weight spring. But I dont play with Savages, so I have no opinion regarding them.

You are a smart man .

 

[carlsbad]

I can make them all shoot pretty well. It's all about the barrel and tuning up the action if necessary.

I've put many more heavier springs on for people complaining of issues than lighter springs than vice versa. some "custom" actions like the feel of the lighter spring...

I just ordered 10 more heavy springs this afternoon, coincidentally.

The spring rate varies as 1/n where is is the number of active coils. Assuming they are all active, then the spring rate actually goes up when you cut it shorter. However, since the compressed length of the firing pin spring is set by the bolt geometry, you loose some compression when you shorten the spring. Which one wins the race? It depends.

So to put it in math terms: F=kx. k is the spring rate that went up. x is the compression that went down.

I remember a thread a while back where I actually measured/counted the coils on a rem spring and measured the spring rate. Seems to me cutting the spring resulted in a net softer spring because of the geometry.

A better way to make a lighter spring is lighter wire.

My vote is for the Remington 700. There is a reason all the custom actions copy it. Not to mention there are more stocks, accessories, parts, and services available for R700 than all the other rifles combined.

--Jerry

 

[Jimsfish67]

You know it is funny, I keep hearing the R700 has more "potential" but I've never heard an explanation as to why that is. Someone on benchrest central said that in Centrefire Rifle Accuracy By William Hambly-Clark, it states that R700 actions are better than all other non-customs because they create repeatable harmonics. No idea if this is true or not.

 

[Grimstod]

No im talking about shortening a spring. You may just not notice it.

I found this for you:

https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/cutting-coil-springs-calculations/

Good article but they are talking about a spring with a fixed load placed upon it. So basically the springs in that article F=k*x is using this formula. For a Spring with a fixed distance and not under a load its math would be rewritten a little different and k must be devided by L or the fixed length. F=k/L*X
I could be wrong, its been a long time since I did math for springs. Cant find my book right now.

 

[carlsbad]

if you cut a spring with a fixed load, the spring will stiffen and the load will not settle the same length as you shortened the spring. It will settle less.

 

[Evlshnngns]

LETS KEEP THIS ON TARGET, Budget benchrest actions

If you start with a basic R700, your aftermarket stock, trigger and barrel will fit a Stiller or equivalent custom/clone down the road. Aftermarket bits also don't loose much on resale.

 

[alinwa]

LETS KEEP THIS ON TARGET, Budget benchrest actions

If you start with a basic R700, your aftermarket stock, trigger and barrel will fit a Stiller or equivalent custom/clone down the road. Aftermarket bits also don't loose much on resale.

I couldn't agree with this more!

And BTW me' Irish conspiritoire..... I just picked up a LA and SA Kelbly Atlas and I gotta' say, they are some bodacious Remclones... this is just a whisper-out, off subject but worthy of note IMO

Only "downside" is 18tpi, but it DOES keep folks from gummering on some "pre-fit" from Billy Bob's Gunz-N-Shine and making the action look bad.....

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dont worry al- somebody will come along perfectly capable of fitting a barrel and still come up with a nut

 

[Dgd6mm]

Because, they just are.

 

[BP1]

If you are entering into the realm of even a semi-custom rifle I would personally drop the idea of prefits and barrel nuts. Yes, they can work for you if the contour and chamber dimensions offered meet with your intended bullets. When you buy your second barrel, and it is likely that you will, you may find that the chambers are not quite identical, and you get into having brass that only works in one barrel.

One of my recommendations to anyone who is planning to shoot enough to wear out a barrel, or who may want more than one barrel in the same chambering is to buy your own reamer. It is small money in the grand scheme of shooting. Have a smith chamber the barrels you want for your rifle.

Buy a barrel vise, they are about $50 add in a $35 action wrench and you can swap all the barrels you want. Guys do it on the tailgate of a truck at matches. It is easier than messing with the go/no-go gauges. Just spin it down tight and go shoot. Make sure your smith knows not to gorilla torque it and put anti-seize on the threads.

The guys that I know that shoot/used to shoot Savages in F-TR all ran them without the nut.

I agree with XTR 100% you can change a shoulder barrel faster than one with the nut simply spin your barrel on and torque it to the correct specs more than likely 85 foot pounds unless it’s a magnum cal. then it’s probably more.

 

[yukonal]

Tikka for the win, hands down the best action of those mentioned.

Paul

Got that right!!!

 

[ratbuster]

Having a nut system for changing barrels is not about how fast you can change barrels. It's about being able to buy a high quality, match grade barrel for less $$ and much quicker lead times. If I buy a blank and have a gunsmith thread, contour, taper, chamber and crown it it's often 3-6 months or even longer. I can buy a prefit off the shelf and get it in 1-2 weeks or have a custom one made (using my reamer if desired) in 8-10 weeks for about half the money of the traditional method.

 

[LHSmith]

Having a nut system for changing barrels is not about how fast you can change barrels. It's about being able to buy a high quality, match grade barrel for less $$ and much quicker lead times. If I buy a blank and have a gunsmith thread, contour, taper, chamber and crown it it's often 3-6 months or even longer. I can buy a prefit off the shelf and get it in 1-2 weeks or have a custom one made (using my reamer if desired) in 8-10 weeks for about half the money of the traditional method.

Generally aftermarket barrels are ordered by the smith already contoured, but I would argue a good smith is more meticulous in machining work than a production machinist at a high volume barrel manufacturer. Then there is the ability to select a reamer design that most benefits the bullets you intend to use. It all depends on your accuracy goals.

 

[Jimsfish67]

Correct, and that is why the nut would be used in this case.

Still not seeing a reason to go Savage PTA over Tikka action except the floating bolt head, and I'm not sure how much that matters.

 

[Texas10]

One question that comes to my mind is what brand are you comfortable working on? You mention that you are building a new rifle however you don't indicate if you will be doing the work. So in my view, the best choice is what ever you're comfortable with if doing the work your self.

Not being a trained and experienced gunsmith myself, I chose the Savage for it's simplicity and ease of working on without the need for expensive machine shop tools. It's simple, elegant in design and function, and all the criticism about bolt lift is unimportant since you're not going to be shooting BR competition.

I doubt any brand of mass made factory action is going to be significantly better than all the rest. If it was, clearly there'd be only one choice, and I don't read that being the case here.

Which ever way you decide to go, I'll be following your progress closely just cause it's always interesting.

 

[mikeinct]

Ditto Texas10, If you are doing the work..Savage..Any odd action..Don't matter..You are looking for a bargain...Easy & less expense to build...Only drawbacks R stiff bolt lift, limited aftermarket triggers.Mike in ct

 

[ratbuster]

Generally aftermarket barrels are ordered by the smith already contoured, but I would argue a good smith is more meticulous in machining work than a production machinist at a high volume barrel manufacturer. Then there is the ability to select a reamer design that most benefits the bullets you intend to use. It all depends on your accuracy goals.

I think you would be very surprised of the machine work quality and accuracy of Criterion barrels. I believe they are on par with the best.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I think you would be very surprised of the machine work quality and accuracy of Criterion barrels. I believe they are on par with the best.

The best believe otherwise. See attached.