Why FL resize?
- Thread starter Leo_B
- Start date
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
Having tested neck sizing only with good results....the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
A properly dimensioned f.l. die (either a bushing or fixed neck style) that gives a repeatable amount of shoulder set back during sizing is preferable in all respects. This has been my experience in chamberings from the .17's to the .30's in everything from hunting guns to true Benchrest rigs.
There are some chamberings that neck sizing does work well due to dimensions and brass thickness (think the Hornet stuff, etc). They are the exception that proves the rule.
When you're neck sizing only and have to apply extra pressure to either open or close the bolt, what you're really doing is using the action and the chamber as a sizing die.
No amount of grease on the lugs and the lug abuttments in the receiver are going to withstand that kind of abuse for very long w/o galling.
You're also levering the back end up the bolt up against the upper bridge of the receiver and 'loading' a bunch of stress into everything.
When that happens, do you think the top lug is still in complete contact with the lug abuttment?
Or that the lower one isn't carrying an excessive amount of load that may lead to galling?
Good shootin'
-Al
A properly dimensioned f.l. die (either a bushing or fixed neck style) that gives a repeatable amount of shoulder set back during sizing is preferable in all respects. This has been my experience in chamberings from the .17's to the .30's in everything from hunting guns to true Benchrest rigs.
There are some chamberings that neck sizing does work well due to dimensions and brass thickness (think the Hornet stuff, etc). They are the exception that proves the rule.
When you're neck sizing only and have to apply extra pressure to either open or close the bolt, what you're really doing is using the action and the chamber as a sizing die.
No amount of grease on the lugs and the lug abuttments in the receiver are going to withstand that kind of abuse for very long w/o galling.
You're also levering the back end up the bolt up against the upper bridge of the receiver and 'loading' a bunch of stress into everything.
When that happens, do you think the top lug is still in complete contact with the lug abuttment?
Or that the lower one isn't carrying an excessive amount of load that may lead to galling?
Good shootin'
-Aldellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Consider that the accuracy potential difference between neck sizing and full length sizing is actually pretty minimal as far as the cartridge/rifle combination is concerned. Things go sideways when you introduce the shooter and a second shot. To have a fair comparison you would need to shoot a series of groups removing and replacing the rifle from the bags between each and every shot. Maybe even put a time limit between shots.
It’s not so much whether or not the bullet exits the barrel the same each time, it’s if the barrel is pointed the same way each time. The harder it is to work the bolt, the harder it is to get back on target, and constantly moving the rifle and or rest is a sure way to change point of impact.
It’s not so much whether or not the bullet exits the barrel the same each time, it’s if the barrel is pointed the same way each time. The harder it is to work the bolt, the harder it is to get back on target, and constantly moving the rifle and or rest is a sure way to change point of impact.
I learned long ago that it is fruitless to ask which gun on a gun forum. No matter which you choose there will always be detractors. I made that mistake asking about a 6ARC bolt rifle.
My advice after all these replies is to just go ahead and try for yourself, then you will gain experience and first hand knowledge. You may find you need both or one truly is better than the other.
Nothing wrong with a 6ARC bolt gun. Lots of fun and can reach out past 1000.
If the wind isn’t blowing and mirage is low.
At the 860 range I frequent, the 6mm guys pack up before noon when it all starts to get fun. My 208gr slices through the wind and allows me to practice my mirage reading.
You obviously haven't shot with me.
Then they must not know how to read wind. lol no issues in the wind and mirage is no worse than any other cartridge.
Why because our predecessors said so.
When you have most of the top competitive shooters agreement (STOP NECK SIZING) im gonna listen.
We loooooove to throw money at dies thinking were gonna find some crazy accuracy step no one thought of ..i dont know..but id rather have less dies and more priners.
So that ends that for me
When you have most of the top competitive shooters agreement (STOP NECK SIZING) im gonna listen.
We loooooove to throw money at dies thinking were gonna find some crazy accuracy step no one thought of ..i dont know..but id rather have less dies and more priners.
So that ends that for me
When a neck sizing die cost damn near as much as a full length sizing die that I’ll need to use eventually anyway, it’s pretty much of a no brainer decision for myself.
It doesn’t matter what someone else does or doesn’t do.
I’m also a 6mm guy that shoots 1K against 300 magnums in heavy gun class, you must run rounds without hang ups that disrupt the rifle in the bags.
It doesn’t matter what someone else does or doesn’t do.
I’m also a 6mm guy that shoots 1K against 300 magnums in heavy gun class, you must run rounds without hang ups that disrupt the rifle in the bags.
What in the world are you looking at? A Redding FL set is $60. A deluxe set is $93. Dont forget a shellholder.Yikes! Over $300 a set! I may not be Redding demographic.
REDDING 22 HORNET FL 2-DIE SET - Graf & Sons
Redding dies are made of the finest alloy steels obtainable and machined on Hardinge Super- Precision lathes capable of holding the tightest tolerances in the industry. To maintain tolerances and guarantee that your dies will last a lifetime, all Redding dies are heat treated in...
www.grafs.com
REDDING 22 HORNET DELUXE 3-DIE SET - Graf & Sons
Redding dies are made of the finest alloy steels obtainable and machined on Hardinge Super- Precision lathes capable of holding the tightest tolerances in the industry. This guarantees that they will produce ammunition that will properly fit any standard (SAAMI) chamber, regardless of action...
www.grafs.com
What in the world are you looking at? A FL set is $60. A deluxe set is $93. Dont forget a shellholder.Yikes! Over $300 a set! I may not be Redding demographic.
REDDING 22 HORNET FL 2-DIE SET - Graf & Sons
Redding dies are made of the finest alloy steels obtainable and machined on Hardinge Super- Precision lathes capable of holding the tightest tolerances in the industry. To maintain tolerances and guarantee that your dies will last a lifetime, all Redding dies are heat treated in...
www.grafs.com
REDDING 22 HORNET DELUXE 3-DIE SET - Graf & Sons
Redding dies are made of the finest alloy steels obtainable and machined on Hardinge Super- Precision lathes capable of holding the tightest tolerances in the industry. This guarantees that they will produce ammunition that will properly fit any standard (SAAMI) chamber, regardless of action...
www.grafs.com
At the Redding website. Not sure where else. Only $183 at Midway. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016308644?pid=876981
I've just not had any of these problems.
Maybe should have my dies and rifles evaluated.
A study in internet science.
Perhaps the trouble is pronounced in the custom built, tighter tolerance rigs?
Maybe should have my dies and rifles evaluated.
A study in internet science.
Perhaps the trouble is pronounced in the custom built, tighter tolerance rigs?
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
What’s worked for years and gets the job done, your basic daily driver.What in the world are you looking at? A FL set is $60. A deluxe set is $93. Dont forget a shellholder.
REDDING 22 HORNET FL 2-DIE SET - Graf & Sons
Redding dies are made of the finest alloy steels obtainable and machined on Hardinge Super- Precision lathes capable of holding the tightest tolerances in the industry. To maintain tolerances and guarantee that your dies will last a lifetime, all Redding dies are heat treated in...
REDDING 22 HORNET DELUXE 3-DIE SET - Graf & Sons
Redding dies are made of the finest alloy steels obtainable and machined on Hardinge Super- Precision lathes capable of holding the tightest tolerances in the industry. This guarantees that they will produce ammunition that will properly fit any standard (SAAMI) chamber, regardless of action...
Latest and greatest for the man who wants the best without having them custom made.
The price on those dies at Midway is not likely to come around again anytime soon. If you’re interested in that type of setup, it’s probably something you should buy. The micrometer seating die is a very nice upgrade.
Hahaha, yes, that's still to come. I've got the Lee die set with the micrometer adjustment. I look at them and think at this point I'm so new I'm probably more of a yardstick adjustment guy.
Reading here with some of the replies being well a bit derogatory for the question being asked.
As you are only using the brass in one rifle, in most cases it is not really that much of an issue, up to a point. Neck sizing reduces the case length growth as the brass flows forward from the web and pushed in with the full length die so less trimming needed.
As pointed out that neck sizing will eventually require the use of a full length or body die used as the case will expand to full chamber size after multiple firings and become hard to chamber and extract. But with experience, I run club level match ammo with neck sizing for the season - gets run through a body die in the off season and only 3 or 4 firings with the batch size per case.
Serious match ammo is full sized to ensure uniformity and consistency. Run Redding Competition dies for both sizing (with the bushes) and seating, use Wilson inlines for final match seating depth if needed to adjust.
The old neck size is more accurate came from the historical barrel making processes - let's just say, our new average mass produced barrels and chambering are more like the old goodies. In this case a tighter fitting fireformed case does have an advantage and a lot less case working - especially if forming back to SAMMI spec.
Now, before every muppet starts jumping up and down like an orange clown, let define full length sizing.
1 SAMMI FL Sizing is per the die manufacturers instructions and setting the fired case back to SAMMI case size specifications.
2 Modern Bump FL Sizing is setting up the die to fit one (or smallest) rifle but not back to SAMMI case size.
Type one, neck sizing can extend brass life in the web especially if the rifle chamber is on the looser size, chamber is of a wildcat or simular with no direct FL die available apart from a parent chambering. User is not intending for any serious critical use - plinking ammo vs world cup match ammo. OP has said only being used in one rifle, so needs to only fit one rifle.
Type two is effectively neck sizing with the full length die - case is reduce in dimensions but not back to SAMMI spec, better chamber fit with more uniform dimensions to ensure clearances when chambered. No advantage between the two process initially, until a few firings then the NS cases need to be run through a full length anyway, but increased need for neck trimming with the partially full sized cases as the brass gets pushed in and forward from the case web. For the high pressure match loads used in the various Competition classes, Type two ensures all cases can chamber as the cases get bumped back a little so there is some tolerances made between the case and chamber dimensions. Clickers are cases blown to chamber size and the bolt uses the lugs extraction chamfer to cam in the case to the chamber - ie 0 or slightly -ve tolerances from an oversized case.
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