Why don't match directors turn in results?

[people]

I have to ask, how are you determining that the MD didn't turn in the scores?

I ask because it is quite well known that the NRA competitions division is understaffed and overworked. Thus, it takes a very long time for results, classifications, national records, etc..

In my 40 years experience I can say that for many years it was common to have the NRA Approval certificate displayed at registration and it is still an NRA requirement but like a lot of things, that too has been neglected. But let me repeat, if you are a Match Director and you apply for and receive NRA Approval you are required to post the NRA Approval at registration. If you are a competitor at a match that is advertised by the Match Director as NRA Approved you have the right to see the certificate. If it is NRA Approved the NRA will follow up if they do not receive the scores and fees within 30 days of the event.

But to be more specific as to why would a match directory(sic) lie about NRA approval? The answer is that there is a match fee of ~5$ per competitor that is required by the NRA to register the scores. Follow the money.

I find these two comments almost comical. Here is the jist of it. We are very under staffed but fully staffed when it comes to getting cash.

 

[chkunz]

I find these two comments almost comical. Here is the jist of it. We are very under staffed but fully staffed when it comes to getting cash.

I did not say they were understaffed, others have said that and they may be but I did not say that. I have been able to get NRA Approval in a timely manner, I send NRA the scores and the fees in a timely manner and have had no problem with them processing the scores that I have sent in.

 

[people]

I did not say they were understaffed, others have said that and they may be but I did not say that. I have been able to get NRA Approval in a timely manner, I send NRA the scores and the fees in a timely manner and have had no problem with them processing the scores that I have sent in.

If you re-read my post you will clearly see the top quote was not your quote. That is the one that stated understaffed.

 

[chkunz]

If you re-read my post you will clearly see the top quote was not your quote. That is the one that stated understaffed.

Got it, I just wanted to make sure no one thinks I am bashing the NRA.

 

[RStewart]

Damn match directors. You would think with all the money they are making for directing matches that they could run a match the way I want it ran. I want first relay, a level, dry firing point, and the best target puller, and I want my stats turned in in 24 hours.

I dare them spend their free time providing me a venue to shoot, and not do it to the satisfaction of every shooter at the match. Furthermore, they should spend even more of their volunteer time trying to satisfy those special shooters. You know, the ones that never show up early enough to help set up but always seem to be the first to complain.

That about sums it up.

 

[Downhill]

As a match director I always present the approval certicate. The NRA requires the results in 7 days (on an approved or registered match they will "remind" you if late on submission). I have been asked if I have remitted results or not. Usually because a shooters classification has not advanced. I will respond if you have been shooting marksman for 3 years the NRA still classifies you as a marksman (surprising the number of times this has happened). Ask to see the approval certificate if in doubt.

 

[Bama shooter]

The false claim of NRA approval was made in several places: on the CMP website as well as in emails and other announcements. The match director (and others) making the false claim are paid employees of Talladega CMP. They were charging $50 for these F-Class matches. I won't speculate on why they lied about the matches being NRA approved. But it's not because they were overworked volunteers.

Why don't you post proof on here where that has been posted on the cmp website, emails, or other announcements because the only thing I've seen on there is they will follow f class rules.

 

[Bama shooter]

Why don't you post proof on here where that has been posted on the cmp website, emails, or other announcements because the only thing I've seen on there is they will follow f class rules.

NRA F Class rules

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Why don't you post proof on here where that has been posted on the cmp website, emails, or other announcements because the only thing I've seen on there is they will follow f class rules.

Hi,

The match this Saturday is an NRA approved match.
The course of fire is:
Unlimited sighters @ 300
20 records shots@ 300

Unlimited sighters @ 600
20 records shots@ 600

2sighters & 20 record shots @ 600

The match is listed on your website.

Please let me know if you need more information.

Thank you,
Sara Rozanski

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Why don't you post proof on here where that has been posted on the cmp website, emails, or other announcements because the only thing I've seen on there is they will follow f class rules.

The Talladega Marksmanship Park invites you to participate in its November 4th F-Class match. NRA High Power F-Class rules will apply. There will be 3 categories: F-open, FTR, and Bench. If you shoot in the Bench category, your scores will not be sent to the NRA for record; however, you are eligible to compete for awards.
Course of fire is twenty shots for record at 300 yards and forty shots for record at 600 yards. There will be a five minute unlimited sighter period prior to the 300 yard course of fire and prior to the first 20 shot string at 600 yards. The second string of fire will provide for 2 sighter shots during the 22 minute shot for record time period.
Match firing will begin at 10:00 am.
Entry fee is $50.00

https://www.facebook.com/events/868003413357765/

 

[rardoin]

Have you called or emailed the MD to ask?

Have you ever considers running a match or two, or being a stat officer and handling this?

^^^^^^^^^^

Have you hugged your Match Director today?

 

[FatBoy]

^^^^^^^^^^

Have you hugged your Match Director today?

I think this came across wrong. I wasn't calling M99 out. I was implying maybe the club needs help.

If we hugged our MD, he'd probably shoot us.

 

[SBS]

Regardless of overwork, underwork, whatever, a club who voluntarily (and no one makes them do this) runs an Approved or Registered tournament should report the results to the NRA. I once participated in a State Championship Smallbore/Hunter Pistol Silhouette match where the results were never turned in. Numerous calls to the MD and some of the club officers never budged them (suspect it was because their members were not the winners). Letters and a phone call to the NRA didn't produce any results either. The NRA said there wasn't much they could do. However, this club continued to run NRA sanctioned matches thereafter. Not much teeth in the NRA requirements.

 

[rardoin]

I think this came across wrong. I wasn't calling M99 out. I was implying maybe the club needs help.

If we hugged our MD, he'd probably shoot us.

I was not either...just reminding competitors that without those volunteers, we don't shoot.

 

[FatBoy]

Regardless of overwork, underwork, whatever, a club who voluntarily (and no one makes them do this) runs an Approved or Registered tournament should report the results to the NRA. I once participated in a State Championship Smallbore/Hunter Pistol Silhouette match where the results were never turned in. Numerous calls to the MD and some of the club officers never budged them (suspect it was because their members were not the winners). Letters and a phone call to the NRA didn't produce any results either. The NRA said there wasn't much they could do. However, this club continued to run NRA sanctioned matches thereafter. Not much teeth in the NRA requirements.

That's BS. The NRA can remove their ability to run sanctioned events.

 

[SBS]

That's BS. The NRA can remove their ability to run sanctioned events.

Not BS, just facts. They could but they didn't, even at our suggestion. They could also lift their affiliation with the NRA, but have you ever heard of that happening? The shooter who was State Champion that year did his level best to get something done, but to no avail. I think the NRA doesn't want to lose any members, clubs or possible NRA sanctioned matches, no matter what. Not a NRA basher, have been a member over 50 years and a lifer over 40.

 

[M99]

My point in my OP was that although I very much appreciate how much work the Match Directors do in putting on a match, and I always make a point of thanking them for doing so before leaving the range after a match, when a shooter travels sometimes many hours to a match, probably spends 1 or 2 nights in a hotel to be able to shoot a match away from their local club, I think that they have every right to expect that the Match Director will live up to their commitment and turn in the scores to the NRA within some reasonable period of time. When they advertise or publish that it is an NRA sanctioned match, that is part of what they are agreeing to do. Even if it takes a month or two, that's not a big deal, to me anyway. But I have shot some High Master scores in matches 6 months prior in F-Class and those scores were never turned in. There is no point in spending the time and money to travel to those far away matches otherwise. Just shoot local club matches to have fun. The sport will die if that becomes wide spread, the same as many other shooting sports have died in the last 40 years I have been shooting various competitions.

 

[Dos XX]

My point in my OP was that although I very much appreciate how much work the Match Directors do in putting on a match, and I always make a point of thanking them for doing so before leaving the range after a match, when a shooter travels sometimes many hours to a match, probably spends 1 or 2 nights in a hotel to be able to shoot a match away from their local club, I think that they have every right to expect that the Match Director will live up to their commitment and turn in the scores to the NRA within some reasonable period of time. When they advertise or publish that it is an NRA sanctioned match, that is part of what they are agreeing to do. Even if it takes a month or two, that's not a big deal, to me anyway. But I have shot some High Master scores in matches 6 months prior in F-Class and those scores were never turned in. There is no point in spending the time and money to travel to those far away matches otherwise. Just shoot local club matches to have fun. The sport will die if that becomes wide spread, the same as many other shooting sports have died in the last 40 years I have been shooting various competitions.

How did you determine the scores were not turned in? Did you call the NRA?

 

[FatBoy]

My point in my OP was that although I very much appreciate how much work the Match Directors do in putting on a match, and I always make a point of thanking them for doing so before leaving the range after a match, when a shooter travels sometimes many hours to a match, probably spends 1 or 2 nights in a hotel to be able to shoot a match away from their local club, I think that they have every right to expect that the Match Director will live up to their commitment and turn in the scores to the NRA within some reasonable period of time. When they advertise or publish that it is an NRA sanctioned match, that is part of what they are agreeing to do. Even if it takes a month or two, that's not a big deal, to me anyway. But I have shot some High Master scores in matches 6 months prior in F-Class and those scores were never turned in. There is no point in spending the time and money to travel to those far away matches otherwise. Just shoot local club matches to have fun. The sport will die if that becomes wide spread, the same as many other shooting sports have died in the last 40 years I have been shooting various competitions.

M99,

If they were approved matches and they didn't get turned in for 2+ months you have every right to be pissed.


SBS,

what is BS is the NRA could do something about it and didn't. There is a lot of other venues out there to shoot. NRA need to pull their heads out of their 3rd point of contact and get with it. PRS started in some guys house a.ces years back and now it's the probably the fastest growing shooting sport out there. Though I don't know the guy who runs PRS , I wound bet it's s still a relatively small outfit. Not a huge organization like the NRA. The NRA could and should do better. If they've gotten to big to get out of their own way, maybe it's time for so e serious changes.?

 

[chkunz]

As a match director I always present the approval certicate. The NRA requires the results in 7 days (on an approved or registered match they will "remind" you if late on submission). I have been asked if I have remitted results or not. Usually because a shooters classification has not advanced. I will respond if you have been shooting marksman for 3 years the NRA still classifies you as a marksman (surprising the number of times this has happened). Ask to see the approval certificate if in doubt.

This is a minor point but the 2016 rule book says match results should be reported to the NRA within 30 days, not 7 days. We are living in an age where expectations are for things to happen immediately but reporting results may reasonably take a match director more than 7 days since the report must include the funds for the fees and of course some Match Directors may have Jobs (a dirty word for us retired folks), family, God and Country obligations that take priority. But if the report is sent within 30 days, by the rule book it is on time. I understand that now a competitor my go on line and see that his scores for classification have been posted by the NRA. Since we now live in an instant gratification world some folks may be disappointed that it takes a few weeks for the score to be posted in the NRA data base rather than the Monday after the match. But that expectation is not justified. It is a justified expectation that the scores are in fact posted within a reasonable time, for sure two months (or longer during the National Matches). Never being reported is not acceptable and the competitor is justified in complaining, first to the match director to verify that the scores have been submitted to the NRA and second to the NRA to be sure that they are recorded, but not within 7 days.