Why bring rifles to the line uncased?

[BronzeArcher]

Lots of ranges in the action pistol disciplines have safe areas where pistols may be transferred from the case to the holster and otherwise handled. The typical procedure for a shooter is to arrive at the range with a pistol in a case, put the case on the table in the safe area, orient the case with the pistol in a safe direction, pick up the pistol, double check it is unloaded, and holster. The handling of the pistol is safe in this circumstance, because it is always pointed in a safe direction. (Every safe area has a backstop.) When pistol caliber carbine divisions were added, the same approach proved workable.

Many rifle ranges do not provide a safe area for guns to be uncased while pointing in a safe direction. However, when the range is clear, "downrange" is a safe area. My preferred approach is to always uncase rifles while pointing downrange, having been brought to the firing line in the case. (Of course, they are unloaded with an ECI at that point.) But even if a shooter's rifle were loaded at that point, it is pointing in a safe direction (downrange) and that should be noticed as soon as the case is opened, and it a sinple matter to remedy safely at that moment, because the rifle is in the case, pointed in a safe direction.

I often see people at the line and near it being swept with rifles at high power matches as shooters move their rifles from their cases to the line when uncased behind the line. I've never seen it happen with cases brought to the line first and oriented downrange before the case is opened. I don't care if it is "unloaded" pointing a muzzle at me is still a gun safety violation of "treat every gun as if it is loaded" and "never point a muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy." "Unloaded" guns have killed lots of people. Cased firearms have not.

From the viewpoint of assuring safety, it is much easier to see that a firearm is uncased behind the line than to see whether or not it has an ECI.

 

[dkhunt14]

I had a coworker who bought, from a gun shop, a used black powder percussion muzzle loader and for whatever reason, put a cap on it and pulled the trigger. He shot a hole through the first floor ceiling, the second floor ceiling and the roof. It was sitting loaded in the gun shop. God only knows where that ball went. You're right. You can't fix stupid, even gun shop owners and employees.

Who was more stupid, the owner or gun shop? Whatever happened to using the ramrod to check to see if it was loaded? Matt

 

[hogpatrol]

Who was more stupid, the owner or gun shop? Whatever happened to using the ramrod to check to see if it was loaded? Matt

Matt, the shooter for sure.

 

[M14AMU]

Simple!

Bolt open with 'chamber flag' inserted so all can see a safe condition!

Why anyone would want to have rounds inserted in the magazine or a round in the chamber enroute to a match is beyond my pay grade!!

 

[WyleWD]

+1 ^^^

It all begins at home before you leave for a match. As soon as the rifle is cleared, cleaned, and readied for the next match an ECI could/should be placed in the rifle. I agree that an empty chamber (ECI) should be properly installed before the rifle is cased for transport to the match. If I remember correctly the NRA matches have required use of ECI's for several years now. WD

 

[Dgd6mm]

Tomorrow, at my 200 yard range I will take my cased rifle to the line. At the bench I will place my case with muzzle down range before opening. I will then open the case, open the bolt, insert (ECI) chamber flag, take the rifle out of the case, the whole time with the muzzle pointed down range. I'll open the bipod and set it down. I handle my firearms in and out of the cases. Never, Ever!!!! Do I store a loaded rifle in a case!!! The rules at my local range allow me to do this....

Don Dunlap

 

[people]

Simple!

Bolt open with 'chamber flag' inserted so all can see a safe condition!

Why anyone would want to have rounds inserted in the magazine or a round in the chamber enroute to a match is beyond my pay grade!!

My magazines are always loaded. No round in the chamber. An empty magazine does not even make a good club. Here in ND you never know when you will have the opportunity to pull your rifle and give some critter hell. Yes it is totally cool to shoot coyotes from almost any road.

To the match thing flags should be enough. I do not like the idea of taking the bolt from a rifle.

 

[JFrank]

^^ It would be unwise at any event I know of bringing a loaded magazine or bolt in to the firing line.
My preferred method vvv
(a small pistol case is perfect for protecting the bolt)

 

[chkunz]

^^ It would be unwise at any event I know of bringing a loaded magazine or bolt in to the firing line.

I shoot XTC. My magazines are loaded the night before with the two/eight rounds and they go into the shooting stool. I shoot either an M14 or an AR so I do not remove the bolt. The rifle is transported to the match in a safe condition; action open, magazine removed, empty chamber indicator installed and rifle in a case. Once I am at the range, I follow the directions of the match director for moving the rifle, uncasing the rifle, handling the rifle, loading the rifle and firing the rifle.

 

[JFrank]

I shoot XTC. My magazines are loaded the night before with the two/eight rounds and they go into the shooting stool. I shoot either an M14 or an AR so I do not remove the bolt. The rifle is transported to the match in a safe condition; action open, magazine removed, empty chamber indicator installed and rifle in a case. Once I am at the range, I follow the directions of the match director for moving the rifle, uncasing the rifle, handling the rifle, loading the rifle and firing the rifle.

Your one of the good guys !

 

[outasite`08]

I have shot on lots of ranges with different rules.Bolt out,ECI, uncase gun in safe area and comply with "whatever" rules. I guess I just go with "when in Rome do like the Romans do". Less stress and more enjoyable day.I won`t give you the life is to short stuff,but it fits too. Where did I set my coffee down?

 

[KMart]

Never, Ever!!!! Do I store a loaded rifle in a case!!! The rules at my local range allow me to do this....
Don Dunlap

You may not. But, you are not everybody. Having loaded firearms come to the firing line, in a case, and a live round in the chamber, is THE VERY reason our club/range has the rule was changed so that no gun cases are allowed on the firing line. At least now, we have a chance to see if the firearm is in an unsafe condition.

 

[Joe Salt]

If the club says no Bolts in rifle when you remove them from the vehicle or trailer then those are the rules! If I'm at a public range my bolts are out and when I go down range the bolt to my BOLT goes with me. I've had people come over to your bench to see what you are shooting, when you are down range. That was Chris Kyle's mistake!

Joe Salt

 

[BLCKWLF]

Local range to me had a similar rule. Cold range, handgun match. Guns must arrive to the firing line unloaded. So, people would handle and unload the gun in their car. Range check-in was done at a currently unused pistol bay, shooting started on the next bay over and so on. I saw this as a risk and mentioned it. "Why don't we have this first bay as the designated safety check "Bunker" area." Keep the gun cased or holstered until you get to the safety check bay and then, keeping the gun pointed down range, you can unload, show clear, insert your flag or whatever condition the gun needs to be in. "Nah, its a non-issue, don't worry about it." Very careless attitude so I didn't go back. Well, 3 weeks later, news hit the facebook of a hole in someones backseat after someone had an ND while handling their gun in the parking lot at this very match...

Personally, I want a designated safe place to handle, load/unload firearms if you are on a cold range. Like USPSA rules require.

The parking lot is not a safe place for such activities. Granted in F-Class or Benchrest i dont think ive heard of anyone ever keeping the gun loaded, but as a general rule of thumb, its best to handle all firearms as if they are loaded and as such always pointed in a safe direction. Restricting the handling of uncased firearms to the firing line or a safety bunker severely reduces the risk of an ND in the parking lot.

 

[people]

^^ It would be unwise at any event I know of bringing a loaded magazine or bolt in to the firing line.
My preferred method vvv
(a small pistol case is perfect for protecting the bolt)

Wow. Just wow. If that works for you then fine. Please do not force your fudd actions on everyone else. Also you do not have enough grease or oil on your bolt. Oh, let me guess you only use your rifle when it is nice out?

With that being said... You must be very dangerous with your firearms if you must remove the bolt. I do not know what you shoot but many BR shooters are unsafe because they think rifles are safe with out a bolt. I could go on and one about firearms safety but there are just two things that will get you 99.9999% of the way there. Muzzle discipline and thinking about what you are doing.

I have been to ranges where someone has left a bolt (whole story) and where someone put the bolt back in and had a ND because of it. What is funny about the ND was he was an older gentleman who shot BR all the time. I have also been to many matches where at least one person left their bolt or BCG at home. These are simply a they were not thinking about what they were doing. At least the ND guy had his rifle pointing in a direction that was safe.

 

[Dgd6mm]

You may not. But, you are not everybody. Having loaded firearms come to the firing line, in a case, and a live round in the chamber, is THE VERY reason our club/range has the rule was changed so that no gun cases are allowed on the firing line. At least now, we have a chance to see if the firearm is in an unsafe condition.

Like I said in an earlier post, I play the game according to the rules at the range. When I go to a new range, the one thing I do before I touch my firearms is know their rules for transporting from vehicle to bench. What ever they want. Safe place staging area or other.....

 

[JFrank]

Thank you for taking the time to share your view, my position is that I do not write the rules at these BR events rather just follow them.
I’ll add a touch of grease to my bolt ( thanks for spotting that)
Much Appreciated
Jim

 

[joe12180]

Our club requires chamber flags. Anyone can easily see if the flag is in place and it is impossible for ammo to be in the chamber and it is impossible to close the bolt when the flag is in place.

 

[Lucky Shooter]

In my opinion----not worth much---we as shooters owe other shooters safety
PLUS the comfort in KNOWING they are safe. Its not a good experience to be wondering
if the other guy is safe----there shouldn't be any questions about safety.

When a guy brings a cased gun to the shooting area, we sometimes don't know what
he'll pull out of his case or how he'll handle it when he pulls it out. Admittedly we might be safe
as long as the gun is in the case but what if some clown shows up with a loaded gun in a case and drops it.
You can probably flip a coin on whether it'll fire when it falls.

The people who make the range rules should think these things out. The BR rule of "bolts out" is a good rule.

Making safety rules is one thing-----adherence and enforcement are also necessary but often neglected. We can't
always depend on "them" to keep us safe-----sometimes we need to exercise the courage to call out safety issues,
whether covered by rules or not.

I think safety is an individual mindset. The buck stops with us.

Shoot'em good, keep'em safe-----not necessarily in this order.

A. Weldy

 

[rkittine]

Since I shoot many different places, I must make sure I know what the rules our at the range I am going to and follow them. In any case, I would never put a firearm away loaded and the bolts are out of my rifles even in my gun room on the rack.

Bob