With all due respect I never heard of a gun going off in a case and can not imagine how that could happen so my thoughts have been that it was better to move guns from vehicles to the firing lines in a case with the chamber flags installed and then remove the guns from the case (with chamber flag in place) when told to do so by the MD. Apparently you have an opposite opinion. I am not being critical but just trying to understand why we have opposite opinions. Respectfully, Clyde.
Why bring rifles to the line uncased?
- Thread starter Nowhere Man
- Start date
If you've been shooting long enough, you will have heard stories of rounds going the wrong way, and maybe even know someone who has made the mistake of doing so.
Incidents like this are very sobering.
Lessons? Range safety is everyone's responsibility. In my mind, first and foremost, it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure the gun is empty and safe. ECI's help that.
Incidents like this are very sobering.
Lessons? Range safety is everyone's responsibility. In my mind, first and foremost, it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure the gun is empty and safe. ECI's help that.
That sounds good, except how do you know what is inside of the case? You open the case to a bolt in a gun or a chamber flag? What else maybe it's loaded.....I never have the bolt with the gun any how but the black guns always do. This is a big issue. Kind of like a guy with a gun in case coming to the line or walking around back of the line with loaded hand gun on his belt...... is it loaded?... jim
What does one do when someone is on the firing line but doesn't know how to remove the bolt from their rifle?? Swear it happened to me one day while at the range. There was no "incident" or anything bad happened. Just the guy didn't know how to remove the bolt from his rifle so he could clean it. No one in his group of 4 or 5 guys knew how to remove the bolt either.
He was all decked out in new camo, getting ready to go huntin'. LOL Just glad I was not going with his group.
I did show him how to remove the bolt on his Savage rifle tho. LOL
Things slip through the cracks, one day, small range, with 5 shooting stations, one being a lay down bench. 3 guys show up, want to hang a target at 100, I drop the mag, open the bolt, one bigshot says to me I need to turn the rifle out of the firing path, all good. Then the clown comes back and lays down on the bench, and gets ready to shoot, I needed to go to my pickup, look down, the open carry idiots pistol will be pointed chest high at me if I walk behind him.
Yup, that's when it started.
I agree with you. There have been many variations in the replies but to be specific in reply to your question, in general, I think it is better to bring the rifle to the line in a case.
You will notice that a lot of replies have to do with removing the bolt but that comes from the bench rest community, a great practice for them but not a general solution for everyone else. The Empty Chamber Indicator (ECI or chamber flag) is also a good tool but again, in common use for another segment of the competitor community but not a general solution for everyone else.
So for everyone else that are not accustom to removing the bolt or inserting the ECI I think bringing the rifle to the line in a case is best.
Now how do we deal with pistols on a public range?
I see three situations here. All three are viable and safe. At my range we use all three. For beginners bringing a rifle encased to the line when in a "hot" condition with the muzzle pointed down range is best. Even if it is loaded when they open the case it will be a safe condition in that no-one will be in the line of fire. what a range requires after the rifle is uncased on the line is up to the club. At my club we require the insertion of an empty chamber indicator. For competition shooters we use the other two methods. For bench rest the bolt will be removed when rifle is uncased. For high power or smallbore an empty chamber indicator is required when the rifle is uncased. Rifles brought to the range without a case when removed from a vehicle must have the bolt removed or and empty chamber indicator inserted and the rifle carried vertically with the muzzle pointed at the sky.
Someone indicated they never saw a rifle got off in a case. I have and it will happen most often with a semi-automatic rifle. The case I saw was an AR-15. The person was using an "open bolt indicator." It was a plastic block which fit into the magazine well with a flag attached to the top which showed when the bolt was open. The competitor inadvertently left a rounding the chamber, opened the bolt but failed to eject the round. He inserted the open bolt indicator and walked behind the line where he placed the rifle in the case, dropped the plastic block, closed the bolt and pulled the trigger. The rifle was pointed up range at the parking lot when it discharged. Fortunately the round missed all spectators. That's when open bolt indicators were banned from the range and empty chamber indicators were made mandatory.
Safety is everyones responsibility and challenging anyone suspected of not following the rules no matter which system is used should always be met with a thank you for caring about everyones safety.
As for pistols on the range. Anyone carrying must have the pistol unloaded except when practicing drawing it from the holster, if the range allows that type of activity. Otherwise only the range officer will be armed and loaded. We have had incidents where non-members came on the property which required an armed person to have them held for law enforcement of removal from the property.
Jetjock
Someone indicated they never saw a rifle got off in a case. I have and it will happen most often with a semi-automatic rifle. The case I saw was an AR-15. The person was using an "open bolt indicator." It was a plastic block which fit into the magazine well with a flag attached to the top which showed when the bolt was open. The competitor inadvertently left a rounding the chamber, opened the bolt but failed to eject the round. He inserted the open bolt indicator and walked behind the line where he placed the rifle in the case, dropped the plastic block, closed the bolt and pulled the trigger. The rifle was pointed up range at the parking lot when it discharged. Fortunately the round missed all spectators. That's when open bolt indicators were banned from the range and empty chamber indicators were made mandatory.
Safety is everyones responsibility and challenging anyone suspected of not following the rules no matter which system is used should always be met with a thank you for caring about everyones safety.
As for pistols on the range. Anyone carrying must have the pistol unloaded except when practicing drawing it from the holster, if the range allows that type of activity. Otherwise only the range officer will be armed and loaded. We have had incidents where non-members came on the property which required an armed person to have them held for law enforcement of removal from the property.
Jetjock
The range I use requires all weapons to be brought to the firing line in a case. The muzzle must be pointed down range at all times, so when taking the weapon out of the case it must be facing down range or the case must be closed and reversed before coming out of the case. If two guns are in the case only the one facing down range can be removed. With various types of weapons being used on the line (bolt, lever, break breech, semi autos etc.) this seems like a safe way to start a shooting session. Shooters who come to the range after shooting session has begun will have a RSO briefing and RSO will watch him come to the line and remove his weapon from the case. All weapons leaving the line will be placed in the case with muzzle pointing down range, unloaded, magazine removed, and empty chamber exposed. I mark my case so I know what direction the muzzle is pointing when the case is closed.
I am not taking issue with what you say; you make some excellent points. I was referring to a cased rifle (rifle in a closed case with no access to the trigger or action) when I said I had never heard of one going off in a case. In the example you gave as an exception, the case was open and the rifle being handled. Once the case is opened the rifle is no longer "cased". Also, I used the term chamber flag when I should have used the term empty chamber indicator (ECI) which has replaced the open bolt indicator (OBI) for reasons that your example shows.
Really all you are talking about is the black guns, a bolt gun has the bolt out and carried separate. I think if you check the laws it maybe required in most states. Besides that if you shoot BR. no bolt in the gun till you are told to. We actually clean them first, so it is a non issue for bolt guns. It may not be long till it it is a non issue with gas guns. It only took three days down under ..... jim
My intent was to say that I have never heard of any gun going off in a case. I was including all guns. I was trying to make the point that I think this is a safe way to bring all guns to the firing line, not just in matches but in general for all guns on all ranges.
hogpatrol
Silver $$ Contributor
I had a coworker who bought, from a gun shop, a used black powder percussion muzzle loader and for whatever reason, put a cap on it and pulled the trigger. He shot a hole through the first floor ceiling, the second floor ceiling and the roof. It was sitting loaded in the gun shop. God only knows where that ball went. You're right. You can't fix stupid, even gun shop owners and employees.
There was a local incident, many years ago where an alert gun shop employee became suspicious of a someone 'browsing' long guns. When the shopper left, the employees checked the displayed guns and several of them that had been handled by the suspicious guy were found to be loaded.
There are many reasons for the four rules.
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