Which recipe?

[Leo_B]

I'm studying and for my 45gr. .22 Hornet, Lyman, who I respect as a top shelf company, says in their 51st using Alliant 2400 the range is 7.9gr/2235fps to 8.8gr/2506fps. Alliant, on their website, list a load of 9.0gr/2506fps and suggests starting at 10% below that. So no minimum fps but they would be 8.1gr/9.0gr vs. 7.9gr/8.8gr in Lyman. Both recipes are 0.2gr difference between the two suggestions.

I believe any loading in the 7.9/9.0 range would be acceptable as I don't believe either one would err on either too high or too low a charge. I'm curious about velocities at 8.8gr and 9.0gr charge as I find it unlikely there would be no difference.

My Hodgdon manual doesn't list anything as 2400 isn't in their house.

Sierra says 9.6gr/2300 to 11.1gr/2500, to my mind a BIG difference in both charge and fps given the differences in charge.

Loadbook, the small spiral bound single caliber book, says 8.6/9.3 for 2300/2500fps.

And Speer says 8.0/9.0 for 2220/2500fps.

So anywhere from 7.9/9.6 as the base load and 8.8/11.1 as the max load. Quite a range on both.

 

[dellet]

You don’t say what bullet you’re using, it will make a difference. In a small case like the hornet, much more than normal. I would start with data for your bullet.

Note Nosler data for 40 grain bullets and the different COL to use the same charge. Some is bullet length. This is where JBM comes in handy as they list many lengths. If you were to load the ballistic top varmint to SAAMI, it would be a disaster.

 

[Leo_B]

Well, mea culpa, the bullet I ordered is the Speer 40gr Spitzer, not a 45gr so I'll have to go back and look at everything again. I suspect results will be similar though with a very large spread across assorted manuals of min/max for the same bullet. Leading to the same question, is it safe to presume the lowest minimum charge and highest maximum charge listed for that specific round is ok?

 

[dellet]

Well, mea culpa, the bullet I ordered is the Speer 40gr Spitzer, not a 45gr so I'll have to go back and look at everything again. I suspect results will be similar though with a very large spread across assorted manuals of min/max for the same bullet. Leading to the same question, is it safe to presume the lowest minimum charge and highest maximum charge listed for that specific round is ok?

Not if it’s a different bullet than listed, as in the example above.

Seated depth, the amount of bullet inside the case needs to be roughly the same. And the shape of the nose can hit the lands at a completely different length. If you confirm those two things, then charge weight should be fine. But again with the small capacity of the hornet case, this becomes more of an issue.

If you use a different bullet than listed, nothing is assumed safe until you confirm seated depth, and jam length.

 

[charlie b]

Even with same bullets I've seen large differences in max loads. I usually find Sierra to be on the conservative side, but, there are exceptions to that. You can "make your own" minimum, just download 10% from listed max. It isn't critical and won't harm anything.

I only use the manuals for me to get a starting point for development. Then I measure velocities and adjust as needed. Different components and firearms make 'large' differences in pressures/velocities the norm.

This is where I use GRT to assist in things. It kinda 'fills in the blanks'.

 

[Webster]

I'm studying and for my 45gr. .22 Hornet, Lyman, who I respect as a top shelf company, says in their 51st using Alliant 2400 the range is 7.9gr/2235fps to 8.8gr/2506fps. Alliant, on their website, list a load of 9.0gr/2506fps and suggests starting at 10% below that. So no minimum fps but they would be 8.1gr/9.0gr vs. 7.9gr/8.8gr in Lyman. Both recipes are 0.2gr difference between the two suggestions.

I believe any loading in the 7.9/9.0 range would be acceptable as I don't believe either one would err on either too high or too low a charge. I'm curious about velocities at 8.8gr and 9.0gr charge as I find it unlikely there would be no difference.

My Hodgdon manual doesn't list anything as 2400 isn't in their house.

Sierra says 9.6gr/2300 to 11.1gr/2500, to my mind a BIG difference in both charge and fps given the differences in charge.

Loadbook, the small spiral bound single caliber book, says 8.6/9.3 for 2300/2500fps.

And Speer says 8.0/9.0 for 2220/2500fps.

So anywhere from 7.9/9.6 as the base load and 8.8/11.1 as the max load. Quite a range on both.

This is normal. I know it's a pain in the butt but you have to deal with it. All I can say is start low and work up a few 1/10 at a time. If the problem goes away with a light load you know what the problem was. You don't need to push for the highest speed you can get away with. Load for accuracy with a reasonable speed that's good enough for hunting or casual target shooting. Good luck.

 

[Leo_B]

I plan to use the lightest load possible that still reaches the target with some accuracy. I'm a plinker not a shooter. My goal is to group into the mouth of the teacup not the base. Just as much fun (for me) and more economical as a bonus. And yes, I'm making sure to look at the same bullet not just same weight.

 

[243winxb]

I ordered is the Speer 40gr Spitzer

Other components need to match. Brass, primer, powder, with the bullet. Starting load 8.1 grs Alliant 2400

 

[Leo_B]

Ok, Alliant, maker of 2400, lists Speer 40gr as 9.1gr of 2400 with 90% as starting load, 8.2gr.

Sierra list 4 bullets 40gr 22 Hornet and the same recipe for each. For 2400 powder it's 10.1/11.2gr of powder.

Loadbooks lists, for the Speer bullet, 8.1/9.1gr 2400. I think they get their data direct from the bullet maker.

Speer, the maker of my bullets, matches 8.1/9.1.

Lee is 8.0/9.1 for a 40gr jacketed bullet.

Lyman ranges 7.2/8.0 the lowest min/max by far.

Hornady only lists loads for 40gr Vmax because Speer bullets don't exist in their world.

And Hodgdon refuses to play because the 2400 powder ball belongs to someone else.

So minimum load is 7.2/10.1gr and maximum load is 8.0/11.2gr. If I toss out the outliers the range is 8.0/9.1gr min/max. So I believe it should be safe to start with 8.0 and depending on results then try 8.25 and maybe 8.5gr. I don't foresee going above 8.5 as I'm just out for the fun as I mentioned. No hunting or competition involved, other than competing with myself from one outing to the next.

My cases will be factory S&B, once fired in my own rifle. My primers are Magtech SR. I consider both to be A game components and don't want to spend a lot of money replacing them. I have however put in "notify me" on Win. brass a couple of places in case they ever miraculously make more.

 

[358WCF]

Loading manuals are guides. There's little to zero chance that your components will be exactly the same as their test components. Yes, that can matter. They show good safe starting points & safe max with the stuff they use. Book velocities aren't always the same as actual results either. I chronograph most everything, & up to 100 or 150 fps difference from my stuff to book loads is not all that uncommon.

Dont forget that barrels & have their own set of variable characteristics. Also dont forget that different brands of brass have different internal capacities which can make a serious difference. I have an old lot of brown box (yes brown, not gold) Lapua 30-06 brass that required approx. an 8% reduction in powder charge to equal some equally old, it was either RP or WW, brass. That's pretty close to the difference between min/max in most manuals which is usually c.10%. Even with a 5% reduction of a near max load it still wasn't pretty. Glad I was wearing shooting glasses that day.

Note in Dellet's post Nosler's min/max for H110 & W296. They are the same powder made by the same manufacturer, just different lots at different times. I tested all of my 4350s a few years back after 2 lots of H4350 bought new about a month apart from different stores showed c.200fps difference fired on the same day with all else exactly the same. The results were a little surprising. When opening a new can of powder from a different lot #, it's a good idea to run a quick 10 or so round pressure/velocity series to be sure it's close to what the old can of that powder produced. Some are very close, some aren't. Nothing's guaranteed.

Glad you're reading lots & asking questions. If you can find it, you might enjoy Firearms Pressure Factors. It's a thin probably long out of print paperback from Wolfe Publishing. Lots of math & equations, but also lots of insights into how & why powder burns the way it does. Fleabay might be your friend. Also (still available) from Wolfe, Ken Waters' Pet Loads compilation is a gem. Powder/bullet data is somewhat dated, but still useful. The opening chapter on developing loads is alone worth the admission price. There are lots of tips & insight thruout even if you dont plan to ever use the particular cartridge being discussed. It sure beats that squeaky dude on Youtube's not so deep knowledge.

 

[Doom]

In general for any max load case you can divide the max velocity by the max load and the result will be a velocity difference per grain. 2506/8.8 or 285 fps/gr. Compares to the difference for 2400 given as 301 fps/gr. It's a pretty good approximation when no minimum is given.

 

[Fuj]

H-110

 

[charlie b]

I plan to use the lightest load possible that still reaches the target with some accuracy. I'm a plinker not a shooter. My goal is to group into the mouth of the teacup not the base. Just as much fun (for me) and more economical as a bonus. And yes, I'm making sure to look at the same bullet not just same weight.

I'd go over to the Cast Boolit forum. Those guys know more about light loads than anyone else I've seen, especially in cartridges like the Hornet.

Cast Boolits

This is the dedicated cast bullet forum!

castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[17cal Fan]

I've played with everything from 30 to 52 grain bullets in my Hornets. Just a fun cartridge and can certainly be accurate. Went through my data base and found I had loaded 40gr V-Max up to 10.7gr of 2400 with no issues, but as always your mileage may vary. Lyman 45th and 46th both show 11.0 grains max. of 2400 with a 40 grain soft point. I've burned through hundreds of "factory 2nds" from Midway and lots of Mid South brand. They are cheap and shoot decent.