So you like the "play" designed into the Coax S/H system and the "play" in the Coax die retaining system, but "play' in the Summit was objectionable? A good press allows the case to enter the die without bias= play is good....a great press does the same with no flexing.DBLNUT said:Look at the design of a summit closely before buying one, I had a summit for 4 weeks and I would not recommend that to my enemyI sent it back to Midway and got a Co-Ax.....there is so much play in them with the poor design that there is no way to accurately resize a case or bump the shoulder back.
which press
- Thread starter akajiggs
- Start date
Yeah is it play in the die and plate or shell holder system or is it play in the linkage and "guide rods" ?
The "Play" in the Summit is not a side to side type of play, it is actually a vertical weakness, the upper ram slides up and down on the main tube, there is clearance between the bore on the ram and the diameter of the tube, stick a dial indicator on it and put a load on it and tell me how much deflection is in it, the upper ram under different loading forces flexes on the main tube, in other words a case that resizes easily verses a case that resizes hard will vary .020....The design itself is the weakness. I personally loved the openness of it and the top mounted lever but it will not maintain a close tolerance to bump a shoulder back. I do work at a very nice machine shop and had even considered chroming the main tube or making a different tube with a closer tolerance fit to try and help it but there is no fixing it.
DBLNUT said:
Funny, there is no "play" as you describe in mine. After adjusting the guide screws (just like one would adjust the gibs on a lathe) the "play is as close to zero as it can be yet still allow movement.
Adjustment is simple. First lube the guide "groove". Put the long handle on and move it so the handle is at 90 degrees to the main column. Adjust on giide screw in until the handle won't fall on it's own then loosen only enough to let the handle start to fall from it's own weight. Lock the screw and repeat on the other screw.
Due to the burnishing of the machine marks in the keyway like "groove" you may need to do this a couple more times until it's smooth. Then just keep everything greased.
For grease I went to a bicycle shop and picked up a tube of White teflon based grease (less messy) and apply it with a small plunger type grease gun. The tube screws directly onto the gun.
As for measuring anything with a Dial Indicator, I only measure the finished cases. When I can size 100 cases and have less than .001" of TIR on ALL of them I figure everything on the press is just fine.
The majority of mid price range and and above presses will work. I do not believe that the press is as important, as it is for the operator learning to use it to its' capacity. Many, if not all presses require some fine tuning. We live in a world of manufacturing tolerances, that are stacked on top of one another. With that said, I am certain that there are some Chinese knockoffs that should be avoided, but I am not familiar with those.
I have an old Herter catalog. Herter did a review on the Summit design many years ago, I had little to no interest in the Summit press but many reloaders got all giggle over it. I wondered why RCBS did not work on the Rock Chucker, I have 4, not one of them cam over. All of my Rock Chuckers go into a bind, lock up or get the linkage tangled before camming over. If my Rock Chuckers cammed over they would not operate my Piggy Back attachments.
F. Guffey
37Lincoln1
Silver $$ Contributor
fguffey said:
I have a RC II, it cams over.
I have a RC II, it cams over.
I also have 8 presses that cam over, I can measure the amount of cam over. I can not measure the amount of cam over on my Rock chuckers because by design they do not cam over. If they cammed over they would not work with my Piggy Back attachments.
I have modified one Rock Chucker to cam over, before that the press operated like a 'leaver lock'.
The RCBS A2 is a cam over press. I have instructions from RCBS, the instructions cover cam over presses and non cam over presses and they answer the question: How to determine if your press is a cam over or non cam over press? They also claim adjustments are different for the two designs.
F. Guffey
After doing a lot of homework on a press that would be best for me, I bought a Forster Co-Ax about three weeks ago, and am glad I did.
Pros: Very sturdy. Lots of leverage. Spent primer collector keeps it clean. Floating die, and shell holder system, should provide accurate ammo. (This was the deal maker for me. The ability to float the Redding S die.)
Cons: Expensive. Priming system is very slow.
Hope this helps.
Pros: Very sturdy. Lots of leverage. Spent primer collector keeps it clean. Floating die, and shell holder system, should provide accurate ammo. (This was the deal maker for me. The ability to float the Redding S die.)
Cons: Expensive. Priming system is very slow.
Hope this helps.
Lee Classic Cast with Breech Lock Bushings=outstanding reloading and plenty of $$$ staying in your wallet!
37Lincoln1
Silver $$ Contributor
fguffey said:I have a RC II, it cams over.
I also have 8 presses that cam over, I can measure the amount of cam over. I can not measure the amount of cam over on my Rock chuckers because by design they do not cam over. If they cammed over they would not work with my Piggy Back attachments.
I have modified one Rock Chucker to cam over, before that the press operated like a 'leaver lock'.
The RCBS A2 is a cam over press. I have instructions from RCBS, the instructions cover cam over presses and non cam over presses and they answer the question: How to determine if your press is a cam over or non cam over press? They also claim adjustments are different for the two designs.
F. Guffey
I contacted RCBS and asked them if my Rock Chucker II is designed to cam over.
Here is their reply:
I own a RC II press. Is it designed to cam-over?
Yes it is.
Miller, Charles
CM Service Rep
RCBS
605 Oro Dam Blvd
Oroville Ca 95965
1-800-379-1732
Phone hrs 6:30am to 3:30pm
bigedp51
37Lincoln1 said:
37Lincoln1
fguffey doesn't reload as we mere mortals do, he doesn't bump and he invented headspace and datums.
So save your time and just don't read his postings, they are all about how fguffey jumps tall resizing dies in a single bound. He also never answers the question any OP asks, so just ignore his postings, besides fguffey's presses come from from the planet Krypton.
If you never watched Superman as a kid then you will understand the meter pictured below.
I have a RC II, it cams over.
How much cam over does your Rock Chucker have?
The linkage on my ROCK CHUCKERS goes into a bind and lock up before the ram reverses direction. Instead of camming over the ram is kicked back at the bottom and forward at the top.
That could be a good thing, when aligning and floating is the selling point of some presses it could be said the RCBS ram tilts. Most reloaders on reloading forums would believe there would be an advantage to all the sliding, gliding and tilting.
The ram tilts without a load, with a case in the shell holder and die the case does the alignment and prevents the ram from tilting/kicking forward when the linkage goes into a bind.
On my cam over presses it is possible to measure the amount of cam over, if the ram cams over the ram changes directions. Again, I use Rock Chuckers on Piggy Back attachments, if the Rock Chucker ram changed directions it would put the Piggy Back into a bind.
F. Guffey
37Lincoln1
Silver $$ Contributor
Guess those techs at RCBS don't know anything about their presses but you do?
Go ahead and give Charles Miller a call, it's free:
1-800-379-1732
Ask him about the cam over and how much it's supposed to have. That should be an interesting conversation if you are not afraid to have it.
Go ahead and give Charles Miller a call, it's free:
1-800-379-1732
Ask him about the cam over and how much it's supposed to have. That should be an interesting conversation if you are not afraid to have it.
If I was guessing I would guess you are more abut showing off than learning. Someone called RCBS, reminds me of a very prolific poster on different forums. He called SAAMI to inform them I said the case did not have head space. I have no ideal hat he expected. All he had to do was look at the drawings. SAAMI did not include the symbol for head space for the case.
It seems to me measuring cam over is a fundamental skill a reloader learns before becoming prolific posters. Now we have reloaders calling RCBS because they can not measure cam over. Again, I have instructions for RCBS presses, I have instructions for cam over presses, I have instructions for non cam over presses. And I have Piggy Back attachments setting on top of non cam over Rock Chuckers.
Again, I am accused of building booby traps, again I say it is not necessary because boobies are too easy to catch.
F. Guffey
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