Which gun & scope to use?

[SteelWheel]

I'm new to shooting. Used to shoot as a kid, but I'm now 65 years old. I would like to do some varmint shooting. I hear from friends a Cooper can't be beat.
> So a stupid question them! I would like the best .223 or 243. with a scope.I want to shoot out to 200 yards.
> I have no idea what to ask for from you. Please give me as much help as you can. Accuracy is most important to me. Of course being able to see a target clearly is also a premium to me.
> I'm also a picture person, so showing me would really help me. My buddy has a cooper 22-250 with a fluted stainless barrel that is beautiful. But is the fluted stainless functional or for looks. She how out of it I am. I hope you have patience, your going to need it with me. I can ask more dumb questions than you can probably handle.
> But I want to get this figured out so I know how it will cost me. I'm retired so I might have to save a while to get it. But get it I will!!!!

 

[jkats]

Welcome to the forum, you will find a great group of people here with more informaition than you will know what to do with. To start off, what kind of money are you looking to spend, what sort of varmints will you be shooting, and what kind of accuracy are you looking to get out of it?

 

[RELOADER300]

you can find a ftr savage for under a grand they come in 223 and 308 there are also savage benchrests that can be found for under a 1000 but the ftr's are lighter.If thats to pricey a remington 700 vs, or vssf, and savage model 12's shoot nice to you can easily find ethier of those for 500 or 600. as for the scope everybody likes diffrent scopes until you get into the leopoulds, nightforce, savarski, ect everybody likes those but they will cost more than the remington or savage used if you want a highpower. hope this helps

 

[rogn]

Another option is Howa. They have a good reputation for accuracy and are priced in the 4-650 range. Their options range from conservative to space agy. Im considering one in 375 Ruger, not for Varmits.

 

[RonAKA]

In addition to the other questions you have been asked, I will ask a few more.

What weight do you consider reasonable? In general, more weight means more accurate.

Do you have a specific look in mind? Sometimes people put the look ahead of the accuracy in priority. For example Cooper tends to have more of the classic sporter look.

Do you want a gun that is more accurate than your friend's 22-250 Cooper?

How much do you plan to shoot it? Some guns last a lot longer than others. 223 much longer than a 243. Is barrel life a concern? I'm retired too, and I talked to an older fellow the other day, and he said "when you get to my age I don't even buy the large box of Cornflakes anymore!"

Do you plan to reload your own cartridges?

Some guidance from you will probably get you better advice.

 

[DogBuster]

Tikka or Savage rifles have a good selection...

Quality construction & accuracy...

Excellent triggers outta the box...

 

[SteelWheel]

About $2500. I want a VERY accurate rifle!
Prairie dogs, gofers, squirrels, coyote etc.
I would prefer to spend less, but you only get what you pay for these days?

 

[SteelWheel]

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me!

 

[SteelWheel]

Wow, you can really tell I'm an old (65), newbie at this.
Didn't even think about gun weight. But accuracy is the most important thing to me! So heavy it is.
Yes, I do want a gun more accurate than his Cooper 22-250.
I plan on shooting every chance I get. So I would say I will shoot a lot. So a .223 would last longer & be a total less cost, everything considered right?
In the future I do plan on learning how to reload my own cartridges. But one thing at a time, unless you think it is best to start reloading right away?
I want to thank you for taking the time to help an old goat like me!!

 

[40X Guy]

I've shot a .223 heavy barrel Remington VSSF for years at both PD's and chucks, I love it for the low recoil, its inherent accuracy and the coolest thing is being able to see your hits thru the scope because of lo recoil and the weight. You can't do that with a .243 or a 22-250. And .223 will shoot clean out to 300 yards and with a little "Kentucky Windage" will shoot to 400 yards. And buy a good quality variable scope in the 6.5-20 or 8-24 class. Welcome to the forum and good luck!

Frank

 

[itchyTF]

Just to add more variables. Would an AR platform be of interest? If you're only planning on going out to 200 yds or even 300, an AR can be a fun and accurate shooter. Very customizable. I have 2 lowers and 3 uppers. One is dedicated to Service Rifle match shooting and the others are flat top varmint rigs in .223 and .20 Practical. For accuracy examples - first attachment is my best 100 yd group with the 20P (1/4" grid) and the second is a 3 shot group at 200 yds (1/2" grid). I haven't shot the .223 much since I got the 20P.

I also have bolt gun varminters in .22-250, 6mm-250 and 6x47L. Just thought the AR might be another alternative.

Click twice on the pictures.

 

[RonAKA]

I've just passed the 60 year mark, and also just got a gun for what sounds like a similar purpose. Here is what I suggest:

Savage LRPV. They come in single shot and magazine type. I like the single shot, and got a right bolt, and left port. I find it handy for feeding and catching my empty cases so they are not damaged, as I reload. The single shot has a more sturdy action, and potentially is more accurate as a result. Here are a couple of links to look at:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRPV%20LEFT%20PORT
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12LRPV%20DBM

I would recommend the .223 over the 22-250 for both barrel life and potential accuracy. If you go with the .223 I would select the slowest twist available, the 1 in 9". In the lighter bullets you would be interested in there is no need for the very fast twist, and there is some accuracy hit in going for a fast twist.

My gun is a 6BR, and I've very pleased with the accuracy so far. Here are the first three groups out of the gun on my last visit to the range with 68 grain bullets. My next group with a 80 grain was under .2" as well.

I believe Cooper guarantees a three shot group to be under 0.5". No guarantee with a Savage, but I don't think my experience is unique. Others could perhaps comment on whether a .223 can shot as well as a 6BR. I suspect they do.

Here is the scope I got which is a Sightron 6-24x42 SII Big Sky in stainless to match the barrel.

I think the Sightron SII Big Sky line is very good quality, and at a somewhat reasonable price. It has 1/8 MOA reticle adjustments and target style turrets, which I think are helpful. More details here:

http://www.sightron.com/index.php?action=view_document&did=1201816362&cat_id=15&id=37

Scope was fitted with Weaver 46S silver bases, and a Weaver Cross Lock Grand Slam rings in the High Silver. Gives just the right clearance over the barrel to fit the scope covers.

http://www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/grandslamsteel/topmount.aspx

So I hope that helps some. There are many other choices of course, but I think for a factory out of the box gun, you are going to hard pressed to do much better than the Savage LRPV with the Target action and Target AccuTrigger. Nice light trigger pull under 1 lb. and still safe.

Cost? I'm not familiar with US street prices but perhaps $1000 for the gun, $600 for the scope, $35 for the scope rings and bases, $100 for a nice case. If you go for reloading, you can get everything you need in a Lee Anniversary Kit for not much over $100. You will need sizing and bullet seating dies on top of that. They can range from $35 or so to well over $100 depending on how fancy you go. If you will reload, I would suggest you consider the 6BR. Light recoil, and good accuracy. Tons of support to load it accurately.

http://www.6mmbr.com/6mmbr.html

 

[DaveWhite]

You should be able to build a really nice outfit for much less than $2500. If your goal is to shoot at about 200 yards, you have so many choices that it will be difficult to choose.

You have not mentioned if you were going to build your own handloads or shoot commercial ammo. The latter choice would limit your options somewhat, but there are great (though expensive) factory loads for .223, .22-250, .204 Ruger, and less so as the caliber gets larger.

How sensitive to recoil are you? A heavy barrelled varmint model such as a Remington 700 VS (or any of the others mentioned above) would help with that, and the smaller cartridges would also be less expensive to load than a .243 or 6mm (no offense to the website gods intended...)

I have found that one rifle can't be all things, which often leads to having a number of them. Think of a golfer with just one club and you will get the picture. I would focus on one type of target and solve that need first. So if you want to shoot everything from ground squirrels to Prairie Dogs to coyotes, you need enough bullet to cover that range. A .204 would be underpowered for the larger game and does not have the offerings in heavier bullets. A.223 would be somewhat limited on the larger game unless you had a heavier bullet and that would mean a faster twist barrel. Those bullets get to be pricey, but your powder factor is low. Move up to a .22-250 and you probably have the best compromise (I have two of them and they are my favorites of all 5 of my varmint rifles). I would not go for the larger calibers unless your volume of fire is going to be quite small.

My single gun recommendation would be the Remington 700 VS with a trigger upgrade, a Leupold 6x20x40 in Talley rings and a Harris bipod. you should be able to put that together for less than $2k, even with some gunsmithing to tune it up, glass bed it and then have cash left over for a case of ammo or enough components to keep you shooting for a while.

Good luck and hold center.

 

[SteelWheel]

You have been more than helpful, thanks!
I have visited all the links, so very helpful. Thanks doesn't seem like enough but it's all I've got THANK YOU!

 

[clannagael]

You say you're shooting up to 200 yards, so a .223 is more than adequate. To be perfectly honest 200 yards is considered short range, so it won't take very much to get there accurately.

Fluting has two purposes: Looks and to cool the barrel off faster. Some people just like the way they look, some people don't. Functionally, they increase the exposed surface area of the barrel helping it to radiate the heat off quicker. They offer no advantage structurally or in terms of rigidity.

If you want a "big factory" rifle there are a number of good manufacturers: Savage, Tikka, Cooper, and Sako come to mind. You can pick up a brand new Savage Model 12 BVSS for $650 or less that will shoot MOA or less out of the box with factory ammo. To be honest, if I were up to spending $2500 I would buy a Savage precision target action for around $450 and get a custom barrel and stock. You could look into the Savage LRPV, which are very nice and very accurate for the price.

Optics: There are as many good optics as there are opinions on good optics. Nightforce, Sightron, Leupold, Nikon, or even Bushnell Elites are good for short range. The only way to pick one, in my opinion, is to look through them and pick the one you like best. There's just too many variables to say "get this one."

Good Luck and happy searching!

 

[whiskey08]

try an ar in 223., loads of fun, easy to shoot, light recoil, accurate