Which 6mm for fclass

[Cody Richardson]

I'm looking to add a 6mm barrel to my current open setup in 284. Something for midrange matches as to not burn my 284 barrels so fast. I just got back from Lodi and saw some excellent score being put up by dashers. I've shot a straight BR as a midrange round but looking for a little bit more velocity. I've been reading up on dashers and BRX and BRDX, not even ruling out the 6XC or 6-6.5x47. I'm really leaning towards the dasher right now. SO if you had to pick, what would it be and why.

For you dasher shooters: would you go with Lapua brass or give the new Norma brass a shot. I know it's a different chamber due to the Norma neck being longer. But hard to beat not having to fire form brass.

 

[Mulligan]

Dasher, plenty of records with them. I am sure all the cartridges you mentioned will do the trick. A retired Doc I shoot with told me a month or so ago, " if you are doing something different than the top 10 or 15 guys in the sport and are winning...that's genius. If you are not winning, you're not very bright". Tough to beat the dasher records.
I haven't used the new Norma brass, I'm sure others will get you some good advice on it. I know I will try it with my next order.
CW

 

[ShootDots]

I'm looking to add a 6mm barrel to my current open setup in 284. Something for midrange matches as to not burn my 284 barrels so fast. I just got back from Lodi and saw some excellent score being put up by dashers. I've shot a straight BR as a midrange round but looking for a little bit more velocity. I've been reading up on dashers and BRX and BRDX, not even ruling out the 6XC or 6-6.5x47. I'm really leaning towards the dasher right now. SO if you had to pick, what would it be and why.

For you dasher shooters: would you go with Lapua brass or give the new Norma brass a shot. I know it's a different chamber due to the Norma neck being longer. But hard to beat not having to fire form brass.

I have had 4 Dasher barrels. There is little doubt of their effectiveness, especially at mid-range. However, if I were to do it again, I believe I would do a 6XC with a 7.5 Twist barrel and a 155-160 freebore so you could drive those brand new .620B.C. DTACs at 3050! That would be a death-ray at 600 yards!

 

[22DASHER]

Two suggestions. One, go with the Dasher! And two, if you build one now then chamber it for the Lapua brass. If you have time to wait then let the bugs get worked out of the Norma brass and that will allow time for more testing. One thing has been proven and that is the 6mm Dasher with Lapua brass can and will win.

 

[Terry Altom]

IF I build another 6mm for F-class or similar (not benchrest) it WILL be a 6mm SLR. Drop the new 115 DTACs in there and I think you'll have something fun.

 

[ASbobcat]

I'm looking to add a 6mm barrel to my current open setup in 284. Something for midrange matches as to not burn my 284 barrels so fast. I just got back from Lodi and saw some excellent score being put up by dashers. I've shot a straight BR as a midrange round but looking for a little bit more velocity. I've been reading up on dashers and BRX and BRDX, not even ruling out the 6XC or 6-6.5x47. I'm really leaning towards the dasher right now. SO if you had to pick, what would it be and why.

For you dasher shooters: would you go with Lapua brass or give the new Norma brass a shot. I know it's a different chamber due to the Norma neck being longer. But hard to beat not having to fire form brass.

Just got off the phone with Berger Tech and they said they are seeing a lot of straight 6BR's show up at F-Class matches and here's why. Berger had to design a bullet with a thicker jacket (Target version) for those either shooting lots of rounds in a short time (F-Class) or trying to push them too fast (6XC, 6x47L), or both. The downside of the "Target" bullet is that it is less accurate due to the thicker jacket and associated potential to be less concentric. I have personally verified this over hundreds of rounds and found the "Hunting" bullets consistently almost twice as accurate both in 6mm and 6.5mm.
You can get 6mmIMP performance with 105gr VLD's from a 6BR with RL17 (2950+). And you can shoot the "hunting" bullets all day long without blowing them up. The difference between that and a Dasher/BRX is maybe 3% and look at all the trouble to get that. According to Brian Litz excellent works, that 3% is almost meaningless in increased hit probability. And the difference in drift at 1000yds is less than 8%. Are you willing to give up 50% accuracy for 5% more "performance"?
Why are Dashers winning? Shooters got bored with the 6BR because it is so easy and had to try the new toy.
Save yourself a lot of time and money and make life "easy".

 

[500Stroker]

I have both a Dasher and a 6BRX.
I cant tell the difference on the target.
BRX is easier to load and you dont have near the fall out fire forming brass.
I not sure about the new Norma Dasher brass I have heard good and bad.
Good luck

 

[500Stroker]

Just got off the phone with Berger Tech and they said they are seeing a lot of straight 6BR's show up at F-Class matches and here's why. Berger had to design a bullet with a thicker jacket (Target version) for those either shooting lots of rounds in a short time (F-Class) or trying to push them too fast (6XC, 6x47L), or both. The downside of the "Target" bullet is that it is less accurate due to the thicker jacket and associated potential to be less concentric. I have personally verified this over hundreds of rounds and found the "Hunting" bullets consistently almost twice as accurate both in 6mm and 6.5mm.
You can get 6mmIMP performance with 105gr VLD's from a 6BR with RL17 (2950+). And you can shoot the "hunting" bullets all day long without blowing them up. The difference between that and a Dasher/BRX is maybe 3% and look at all the trouble to get that. According to Brian Litz excellent works, that 3% is almost meaningless in increased hit probability. And the difference in drift at 1000yds is less than 8%. Are you willing to give up 50% accuracy for 5% more "performance"?
Why are Dashers winning? Shooters got bored with the 6BR because it is so easy and had to try the new toy.
Save yourself a lot of time and money and make life "easy".

Did the Berger Tech state which weight bullet has the thicker jacket?

 

[dkhunt14]

There is a huge difference in groups shot at 1000 between the Dasher and 6 BR. One guy thought he didn't want to fool with Fireforming so he cut his Dasher off and rechambered with 6 BR. He won 5 shootoffs with the Dasher and none with the BR. Next year he cut it off and made a Dasher again and he went back to winning. The 100 to 150 FPS more you get with the Dasher is huge at 1000 yards. Now I know this is BR but if a gun shoots that much better in 1000 yard BR, it has to do better at midrange. Yes Fireforming is work but after they are formed brass lasts 15 to 25 firings. Just find somebody with a Fireform gun. I prefer the Lapua brass because it lasts. The guys I know with Norma brass couldn't reach the velocities and lost the pockets. Another thing is you could shoot a short range match and Fireform then. It is accurate while forming. Matt

 

[pburr]

There is a huge difference in groups shot at 1000 between the Dasher and 6 BR. One guy thought he didn't want to fool with Fireforming so he cut his Dasher off and rechambered with 6 BR. He won 5 shootoffs with the Dasher and none with the BR. Next year he cut it off and made a Dasher again and he went back to winning. The 100 to 150 FPS more you get with the Dasher is huge at 1000 yards. Now I know this is BR but if a gun shoots that much better in 1000 yard BR, it has to do better at midrange. Yes Fireforming is work but after they are formed brass lasts 15 to 25 firings. Just find somebody with a Fireform gun. I prefer the Lapua brass because it lasts. The guys I know with Norma brass couldn't reach the velocities and lost the pockets. Another thing is you could shoot a short range match and Fireform then. It is accurate while forming. Matt

+1...this is gospel!

 

[Terry Altom]

Find a local groundhog/prariedog match for your fireforming. A Dasher's fireforming accuracy is usually plenty well suited to that level of accuracy. I formed about 30 just two weekends ago. Loads of fun to be had!

 

[ASbobcat]

Did the Berger Tech state which weight bullet has the thicker jacket?

All bullet weights that come in both "Target" and "Hunting" versions have a thicker jacket in the target version. Go to their website and look in the lower right corner under "berger blog", then again in the lower right corner under "blog categories" and scroll down to "History of the Match Grade Hunting VLD" for a detailed explanation of why they are designed this way.

 

[ASbobcat]

There is a huge difference in groups shot at 1000 between the Dasher and 6 BR. One guy thought he didn't want to fool with Fireforming so he cut his Dasher off and rechambered with 6 BR. He won 5 shootoffs with the Dasher and none with the BR. Next year he cut it off and made a Dasher again and he went back to winning. The 100 to 150 FPS more you get with the Dasher is huge at 1000 yards. Now I know this is BR but if a gun shoots that much better in 1000 yard BR, it has to do better at midrange. Yes Fireforming is work but after they are formed brass lasts 15 to 25 firings. Just find somebody with a Fireform gun. I prefer the Lapua brass because it lasts. The guys I know with Norma brass couldn't reach the velocities and lost the pockets. Another thing is you could shoot a short range match and Fireform then. It is accurate while forming. Matt

Matt,
It's hard to argue with success. The IMP's work for a lot of shooters and some don't mind the fireforming. I was just pointing out that the extra 100-150fps is only worth 0.1 mil difference in drift at 1000yds. Next time you look through your scope, see what 0.1 mil looks like and compare that to your total wind hold off.
I agree with you on the Norma brass.
Bob

 

[dkhunt14]

Matt,
It's hard to argue with success. The IMP's work for a lot of shooters and some don't mind the fireforming. I was just pointing out that the extra 100-150fps is only worth 0.1 mil difference in drift at 1000yds. Next time you look through your scope, see what 0.1 mil looks like and compare that to your total wind hold off.
I agree with you on the Norma brass.
Bob
I gree

I see 8 inches plus in the 10 shot groups being shot at 1000 yards. That to me is a lot. It is enough that there are no longer any 6 BR's being shot that I know of. Matt

 

[BenPerfected]

You can skip the fireforming and get DJ's Brass to hydro-form your BR brass. If you add up the cost, it is almost the same. DJ's hydro-formed brass is close enough to shoot when practicing, tuning or in a local tournament.

 

[Dan Hall]

I shoot DJ's hydro formed brass and it IS the way to go. I load up a mild Dasher load with them and the accuracy is usually very good. and DJ is a good guy to do business with.

 

[4xforfun]

I don't know what the fuss is about fire forming. I have formed about 1000 dasher brass to date......(still only a fraction of what some of the guys on this sight do). 25 with the jam only method ( didn't get uniform brass), 25 with the pistol powder and a wad of tissue method (same), and the rest with the false shoulder with a hard jam method (PERFECT , UNIFORM BRASS). I shoot fun matches, steel, and many, many prarie dogs while fire forming. I shoot a stiff load of Varget and the Berger 105BT. Very, very accurate!!! The only reasons why I never shot 600 or 1K matches while forming brass is the chance of loosing a shot low due to a split shoulder (about 2 per 100) and the fact that my "crush" (headspace) is very tight and the bolt is tough to close....upsetting the gun in the bags. Other than that....very accurate.

As far as the "fuss" part..... My process for loading ANY new (wildcat, AI, or SAMI) case is to first run the neck through an expander mandrel and then back through a neck bushing to iron out any lumps or bumps in the neck and to simply make them as "the same" as possable. The fact that I need to use a larger expander mandrel when I "dasherize" a piece of brass makes ZERO difference, takes ZERO extra effort, and takes ZERO extra time....for me!!

As far as the OP.....what Matt (dkhunt14) said!!

Good luck,

Tod

 

[MOShooter]

IF I build another 6mm for F-class or similar (not benchrest) it WILL be a 6mm SLR. Drop the new 115 DTACs in there and I think you'll have something fun.

I was unimpressed with my 6slr. If you use Lapua brass and turn the necks it could be much better. Otherwise, the brass sucks. My ES/SD where never very good. A 6 comp match might be better. Lapua brass, no turning.

Scott

 

[dmoran]

Matt,
It's hard to argue with success. The IMP's work for a lot of shooters and some don't mind the fireforming. I was just pointing out that the extra 100-150fps is only worth 0.1 mil difference in drift at 1000yds. Next time you look through your scope, see what 0.1 mil looks like and compare that to your total wind hold off.
I agree with you on the Norma brass.
Bob

Bob -
My own experience is a 6Dasher gives nothing up to a 6BR at any distance. But a 6BR gives up to a 6Dasher the further you send them down range (primarily after 600yds or so).
Both are great, but when it comes to LR, the Dasher has the advantage.

And as you alluded, the drop advantage is not the real gain, but the windage is.
Donovan

 

[johara1]

Matt,
It's hard to argue with success. The IMP's work for a lot of shooters and some don't mind the fireforming. I was just pointing out that the extra 100-150fps is only worth 0.1 mil difference in drift at 1000yds. Next time you look through your scope, see what 0.1 mil looks like and compare that to your total wind hold off.
I agree with you on the Norma brass.
Bob

A 6br can not keep up to the conditions, the 100-150 fps. is worth a lot and the accuracy of the Dasher is incredible .... jim