which 6.5 or other cartridge to build my first custom 1000 yard gun/ hunting rif

[SEB-USA]

I am going to make an assumption that you also want this rifle for LR hunting?
If I am wrong, you can pretty much ignore what is below.
IF your main goal is hunting, not competing stop worrying about barrel life.
With comps you get sighters to get dialed in for the wind and drop.

Not many people use sighters on game, I do at times, when it gets far out there. The animal is not the sighter though ;D
I will range another object the same distance that is to the right or left of the animal, and see how good I doped the wind.
If the animal spooks, it spooks. Then I move to the animal and get ready to get out the knife.

For a hunting rig, barrel life is not your problem and neither is drop.
WIND is your problem. No wind flags when hunting, unless you have some streamers set up in your fixed Sendero's
Most of the time with the exception of what described above, you will get one chance, and don't even think about pulling the trigger unless you are convinced you are going to make a lethal shot.

I'm not sure how long, long distances are for you for game, but you also need to consider the impact velocity of said bullet.
Will it have enough impact velocity for it to work correctly?
Since you are using a brake and it will be a heavy gun go with a big 7mm: 7 SAUM, 7 WSM, 7LRM, 7mm Dakota and use the Berger 180 Hybrid. The reports I have been seeing is that it works better on game the Berger's Orange Box 7mm 168 grain VLD's

 

[MTlager]

Ernie, Interested in were you got your reports on the 180 Hybrids working better for hunting than the 168 VLD. I was shooting one of my steel targets the other day @ 1640 yds with 180 "target" VLD's and 168 hunting VLD's (7 Saum) and the 180's put a crater twice as deep in the iron as the 168 going a 100 fps faster! Curious if the thicker "target" jacket made a difference in the crater depth verses the hunting jacket. Was going to hunt with the 168 but after seeing the big craters the 180's made think they would be a better choice for long range hunting. Have not shot the steel yet with 180 VLD, but interested in your Hybrid info.
Lonnie

 

[SEB-USA]

I spent a couple of days in Burlington, WY with Aaron Davidson. It came up in conversation with him at his house, since I knew they had moved to the 180 Hybrid both in their 7RM and the 7LRM. I asked had he seen a difference. And to date, he likes the 180 Hybrid over the 168 VLD (Orange) on game. We were only speaking about 7mm and these two bullets. His limit for minimum impact velocity is 2000 feet per second with the Berger's, whether VLD or Hybrid.

Ernie, Interested in were you got your reports on the 180 Hybrids working better for hunting than the 168 VLD. I was shooting one of my steel targets the other day @ 1640 yds with 180 "target" VLD's and 168 hunting VLD's (7 Saum) and the 180's put a crater twice as deep in the iron as the 168 going a 100 fps faster! Curious if the thicker "target" jacket made a difference in the crater depth verses the hunting jacket. Was going to hunt with the 168 but after seeing the big craters the 180's made think they would be a better choice for long range hunting. Have not shot the steel yet with 180 VLD, but interested in your Hybrid info.
Lonnie

 

[MTlager]

With the 7 Saum that's only good for 900 yds. Close to 200 ft-lbs more energy with the 180. What game has he shot with the Hybrid and how did they preform vs. the vld

 

[coreydelong]

My 6.5x284 Broughton has 890 rounds down the tube and shot 597-32x last time out in a less than favorable mirage the last string. I have a 2nd barrel already broken in for the rifle when the first heads south on paper. Throat cleaning is paramount on the 6.5x284.

You don't need to tear up the barrel at 3100fps..... 2950fps works great and I'm sure saves me some barrel life. I have loads with H4350 and H4831SC that are interchangeable at ~2950fps. You could alternate loads in a string and never notice.

$400 for a new barrel + chambering is nothing over the course of a years worth of matches.

Hoover is the man on the 6.5x284. I use his bullets and our loads are nearly identical less primers. I am using F210GM and I believe John uses CCI's.

If I was to start from scratch, I would do a straight 284, but since I have so many components and brass for the 6.5x284 I don't see changing anytime soon. I way too comfortable with the caliber.

 

[SEB-USA]

I know of one bull, that was pretty far out, but I did not ask about the other critter types and distances for each.
It may be awhile before I touch base with him again. I will ask when I talk with him.

With the 7 Saum that's only good for 900 yds. Close to 200 ft-lbs more energy with the 180. What game has he shot with the Hybrid and how did they preform vs. the vld

 

[mikegaiz]

Back to 6.5. I own and have shot a lot of 6.5 cases, 6.5x47 Lapua, 260, 6.5x55 sw, 6.5/06, 6.5/06 imp, 6.5x284. I would advise either 260 or 6.5x47 Lapua. you wont be sorry. They are cheaper, easier, and very accurate. The only disadvantage is they are a little slower as not as flat shooting.

 

[ScottMcc]

Mike, what kind of rifle was your 6.5-06? How accurate was it? I wonder if a long cartridge like that is not capable of 1000 yard target accuracy.

 

[mikegaiz]

I shot the 6.5/06 Ack. in Va, 1000 yd Club (results on web site 2004-2005) IBS matches and won a couple matches and several relays, got tired of fire-forming brass so went to 6.5x284. Still shot it for long range varmint and love it. great to 1500 yds. 3000 fps, 142 SMK. H4831sc. ;D One of my good friends still shoots 1000 yd. with this today and wins.

 

[jim_k]

Long action is a good idea; .308 Win is fine, since 185 Berger VLD hunting bullet still has 800 ft-lbs of energy at 1000 yrds, and that puts you in F/TR class, which is easier to be competitive. Also, you have the option of 125 gr. deer bullets out to 300 yrds. 26 inch barrel would be my choice, to accomplish all this. The 6.5 or 7mm route is OK, too, but brass availability is better on .308, since you can use LC cases from once-fired sources. They are fine cases, and I have used them out to 750 yds, GTG, and competed well in F/TR with them.

 

[lh leggtowner]

Keep it coming guys and gals. I cannot believe how much information I am getting from a single question. I am still not getting the answer that I thank is the answer to the barrel burning situation. I am just hearing the obvious. Hell, if I did not care, I would build a 6.5x.284 and order 3 or more barrels for it and make them quick connect if possible. I am wondering where someone mentioned earlier, is there a velocity that makes the barrel more apt to burning or is it just the total design of the cartridge. I really wish someone would scientifically decsribe the reason of barrel burning and what can keep it from happening. thanks guys and keep it coming.

 

[SEB-USA]

There is no simple formula.
Rifle #1 chambered in Super Magnum.
Rifle #2 Chambered in Super Magnum.
Both rifles weigh 17 pounds and use the same loads and have the same MV.

Rifle #1 is used in a 1000 yard matches where 10 shot groups are common and in 1000 yard F-Class with 15 and 20 shot string shooting and for practice and hunting.

Rifle #2 is used for a couple of 1000 yard IBS matches (Light Gun = 5 shot groups). It is also used a lot for practice at distance, but no more than three shot groups and always allowing the barrel to cool before shooting another group.
It is also used for hunting.

Both rifles go through 700 rounds per year.

Everyone is going to pick rifle #2 as lasting longer.
If there was a third rifle, that didn't do any comps, and their practice regimen was the same as #2, it would last even longer.

How the rifle is used is a big part of the equation on how long that throat will last.
View a barrel as something that will need to be replaced.
Depends if you want an economy model or a race car.
Then it is going depend on how you run each one of them.

 

[benchracer]

Keep it coming guys and gals. I cannot believe how much information I am getting from a single question. I am still not getting the answer that I thank is the answer to the barrel burning situation. I am just hearing the obvious. Hell, if I did not care, I would build a 6.5x.284 and order 3 or more barrels for it and make them quick connect if possible. I am wondering where someone mentioned earlier, is there a velocity that makes the barrel more apt to burning or is it just the total design of the cartridge. I really wish someone would scientifically decsribe the reason of barrel burning and what can keep it from happening. thanks guys and keep it coming.

The reason for barrel erosion is heat, plain and simple. Nothing can be done to stop it from happening. A lot can be done to accelerate the process. The process can also be slowed to a degree.

Aside from how its used, if you want to increase barrel life you either have to go to a larger bore or a smaller capacity case or some combination of the two. Both of these factors result in decreased ballistic performance. The bottom line here is that there is no free lunch. If you want fast, flat, and wind resistant, you are going to have to accept barrel wear.

Even the smaller cased 6.5's are overbore compared to a .308. Ditto the 7mm's. If barrel wear is your number one concern, shoot a .308. If ballistic performance is your number one concern, then you will have to accept shorter barrel life. There is no magic potion that will change this.

 

[SEB-USA]

Well said!

Keep it coming guys and gals. I cannot believe how much information I am getting from a single question. I am still not getting the answer that I thank is the answer to the barrel burning situation. I am just hearing the obvious. Hell, if I did not care, I would build a 6.5x.284 and order 3 or more barrels for it and make them quick connect if possible. I am wondering where someone mentioned earlier, is there a velocity that makes the barrel more apt to burning or is it just the total design of the cartridge. I really wish someone would scientifically decsribe the reason of barrel burning and what can keep it from happening. thanks guys and keep it coming.

The reason for barrel erosion is heat, plain and simple. Nothing can be done to stop it from happening. A lot can be done to accelerate the process. The process can also be slowed to a degree.

Aside from how its used, if you want to increase barrel life you either have to go to a larger bore or a smaller capacity case or some combination of the two. Both of these factors result in decreased ballistic performance. The bottom line here is that there is no free lunch. If you want fast, flat, and wind resistant, you are going to have to accept barrel wear.

Even the smaller cased 6.5's are overbore compared to a .308. Ditto the 7mm's. If barrel wear is your number one concern, shoot a .308. If ballistic performance is your number one concern, then you will have to accept shorter barrel life. There is no magic potion that will change this.

 

[mikegaiz]

I totally agree with heat being the problem. You pay your money, and pick your poison.

There are other things that can prolong barrel life. To open the per-verbal can of worms, here goes "Bullet coatings and powder choice". I have a 243 varmint gun with a stainless steel barrel that has only shot molly coated bullets and only with Ball powder (H380) it has over 4000 rounds through it and it will still shoot a 1 in group at 100 yds. That is remarkable. However i Have never been able to get repeatable match accuracy with molly bullets. :'(

 

[lh leggtowner]

You guys and gals have answered the question. I am thinking that it boils down to this... You got to pay to play. If you want to go fast , you got to pay the price. Now I have to decide if that is the thing that I want to do. 6.5x.284 or 6.5-06 (AI) for the speed side. Or go a little more conservative i.e. .260 or 6.5x47. Oh, can any of you guys let me know the name of the website that you can plug your information and the table lets you know how the velocity, bullet drop etc. at distance. I believe it lets you know when the bullet goes subsonic. Thanks folks.

 

[SEB-USA]

You may be more interested in transonic, which is before subsonic.
How far do you want to shoot?

 

[benchracer]

This is what you are looking for:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/


The output you will get from using their trajectory calculator will include mach #'s for the bullet. As mentioned, the key figure involves when the bullet enters the transonic range, which begins at mach 1.2.

 

[savagedasher]

I assume the primary use is for hunting. I will list them as my choice 6.5 is a straight 260 7mm would be 7mm08 30cal would be a 308 .All those listed you can go to most gun shops and find. They will all kill any thing in North America. For 1000 yd 260 first 308 second and 7 -08.
Larry

 

[lh leggtowner]

Hey benchracer thanks. that is what i was looking for. Ernie, if my buddy wants to ride to tennessee and shoot the 1000 i want to be able to shoot it. That would be as far as i ever think i would EVER shoot. By the way, great info Ernie. I sincerely appreciate it.