Where's all the new 25 caliber bullets?

[284winner]

Did initial development today with the 110 TGK and 257 rob. 100 yards to get an idea on powder and velocity. I decided to try reloder 23 and i have tons of 215M primers for my wsm so loaded some up. I usually use re19 but wanted to try 23.

winchester +p case. Standard 257 roberts chamber I believe. Lands i found at 2.943” oal or 2.415” base to ogive. I loaded to 2.400” so .015 off.

1. 44 grains fps-2869 2861 2877
2. 44.5 grains fps- 2899 2898 2886
3. 45 grains fps2957 2951 2962
4. 45.5 grains fps- 2962 2954 2968

Groups 45 and 45.5 shot real nice. 45 was a triangle about .5 moa. 45.5 was 3 holes touching in horizontal like string, about .3-.4 moa. Velocity flatlined there so i think it will like that charge. Couple seating depth tests and i think i’ll be happy here. Its exceeding what I expected for velocity and group so far. These may be hot loads, its a 20” barrel but everything looks good. Light bolt, no ejector marks, primers seem ok to me but im no expert

The sweet spot for me almost aways seems to be the 3000 fps range in many of my cartridges using heavy for caliber bullets. Exception being smaller case cartridges.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Well the tipped gamechangers do seem pretty good out of a 10 twist. Shot two loads at 550 yrds in some gusty conditions. I should have waited for a better day but shot when it seemed calm. One load had good vertical but windage was broad, maybe some due to the load some me and the wind? Hard to say need to repeat. Other load had a nice group of 4 landing in a 4x3” rectangle. One off low left, again could be wind could be me. But seemed pretty consistent enough, its not a match gun by any means and only 14x scope. I guess if they were not stable they might be More inconsistent on hits?
They did seem to take .75 moa more elevation adjustment over predicted, which the app has worked well for other gun loads. So maybe thats what berger means by marginal stability may compromise bc

 

[284winner]

Well the tipped gamechangers do seem pretty good out of a 10 twist. Shot two loads at 550 yrds in some gusty conditions. I should have waited for a better day but shot when it seemed calm. One load had good vertical but windage was broad, maybe some due to the load some me and the wind? Hard to say need to repeat. Other load had a nice group of 4 landing in a 4x3” rectangle. One off low left, again could be wind could be me. But seemed pretty consistent enough, its not a match gun by any means and only 14x scope. I guess if they were not stable they might be More inconsistent on hits?
They did seem to take .75 moa more elevation adjustment over predicted, which the app has worked well for other gun loads. So maybe thats what berger means by marginal stability may compromise bc

Sierra states 10 twist (or faster exception is the 250-3000 cartridge). That cartridge is around 2800-2850 with the 110s. Your setup clearly is much faster putting you easily within the 10 twist category. I wouldn't completely rely on the Sierra BC published number or the calculator 100%. The MOA at every range is what it is. Be happy with the accuracy your getting at 550. IMO, your bullet is stable. 550 isn't really long enough range to make a difference in BC regardless of the numbers unless it's a heavy round nosed design.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Yeah im happy with. Im doubtful im gonna shoot anything with it at ranges that far anyway. I used it as my 100 yard deer gun this season. My 550 yard powerline i have my 300 wsm. Its dialed to 1400. The calc was very close for it.

 

[284winner]

Yeah im happy with. Im doubtful im gonna shoot anything with it at ranges that far anyway. I used it as my 100 yard deer gun this season. My 550 yard powerline i have my 300 wsm. Its dialed to 1400. The calc was very close for it.

Some get you very close and some close enough to fine tune better. It's definitely a great asset in shooting but nothing beats the time on the range getting the gun dialed exact.

 

[std7mag]

Whew, thought i was the only one with dope sheets anymore....

 

[Orr89rocz]

Some get you very close and some close enough to fine tune better. It's definitely a great asset in shooting but nothing beats the time on the range getting the gun dialed exact.

No doubt but when you have no data you gotta start somewhere and for me, atleast with a 308 and 300 wsm with two different loads, its been pretty close. This was abit further off than i was used to. Thats why i thought maybe something to this marginal stability bc thing. Never shot a bullet with this low a spin factor.
I dope sheet too, but mainly adjust my calc inputs to match reality, and then it will adjust again for change of weather altitude etc. cant always shoot in every condition known to occur and carry a book into the field. In my experience once you have the calcs dead onfor a given condition, its reliable in others within reason. Hunting temps seem to be 30-55 degs for me on average norms so only minor adjustments are needed. I verify the load in cold and warm extremes of that range. Anyways offtopic lol continue on

 

[SweaterDood]

Did initial development today with the 110 TGK and 257 rob. 100 yards to get an idea on powder and velocity. I decided to try reloder 23 and i have tons of 215M primers for my wsm so loaded some up. I usually use re19 but wanted to try 23.

winchester +p case. Standard 257 roberts chamber I believe. Lands i found at 2.943” oal or 2.415” base to ogive. I loaded to 2.400” so .015 off.

1. 44 grains fps-2869 2861 2877
2. 44.5 grains fps- 2899 2898 2886
3. 45 grains fps2957 2951 2962
4. 45.5 grains fps- 2962 2954 2968

Groups 45 and 45.5 shot real nice. 45 was a triangle about .5 moa. 45.5 was 3 holes touching in horizontal like string, about .3-.4 moa. Velocity flatlined there so i think it will like that charge. Couple seating depth tests and i think i’ll be happy here. Its exceeding what I expected for velocity and group so far. These may be hot loads, its a 20” barrel but everything looks good. Light bolt, no ejector marks, primers seem ok to me but im no expert

That’s rockin from a 20” tube. Re23/26 seem to be a good match for the Mauser length cartridges. As soon as I can find some, I plan to try It out. Same with Re17...

 

[284winner]

That’s rockin from a 20” tube. Re23/26 seem to be a good match for the Mauser length cartridges. As soon as I can find some, I plan to try It out. Same with Re17...

Wow, yes it is. I didn't read the 20" barrel part. Almost 3000 from a 20" barrel in a Roberts is cookin.

 

[284winner]

No doubt but when you have no data you gotta start somewhere and for me, atleast with a 308 and 300 wsm with two different loads, its been pretty close. This was abit further off than i was used to. Thats why i thought maybe something to this marginal stability bc thing. Never shot a bullet with this low a spin factor.
I dope sheet too, but mainly adjust my calc inputs to match reality, and then it will adjust again for change of weather altitude etc. cant always shoot in every condition known to occur and carry a book into the field. In my experience once you have the calcs dead onfor a given condition, its reliable in others within reason. Hunting temps seem to be 30-55 degs for me on average norms so only minor adjustments are needed. I verify the load in cold and warm extremes of that range. Anyways offtopic lol continue on

Yep I agree. I just don't think it's the twist that's causing your difference. I'm no rocket scientist so maybe someone else can add their opinion because you could be dead on. It's just my experience that the twist isn't your issue with the added elevation.

 

[284winner]

I ALWAYS use dope data( Ballistics calculator) after running velocities. It's a huge advantage when getting out to 600+ yards. No chasing bullets or guessing. At this point, after doing this stuff long enough, we all pretty much can get within a minute of bull out to 600 yards with most cartridges. There all very close really out to that range. BC doesn't really come into play until after 600 yards.

 

[Vega4]

I just picked up 100 yesterday. Has anyone had any chance to work on loads yet? Just looking for a place to start with them

 

[284winner]

I just picked up 100 yesterday. Has anyone had any chance to work on loads yet? Just looking for a place to start with them

100 of what ?

 

[110len]

100 of what ?

Check out Blackjack bullets.

 

[Wisconsinner]

Check out Blackjack bullets.

Where did you find them? Blackjack has been out of stock for a while.

 

[SweaterDood]

I just picked up 100 yesterday. Has anyone had any chance to work on loads yet? Just looking for a place to start with them

Which cartridge? I would back off 2-3 full grains from a book starting load for a 115-120gr bullet. Also use data for the slowest powders mentioned

 

[sapper299]

In a XM/Mauser length/Long action the good ole Ackley ‘Bob will run the 131 Ace to 3200’ with a .150FB in a 7.5tw 25” tube. Glad to see some new options might pan out soon

Just built one on a Remington long action switch barrel. You have any load data for the 131?

 

[284winner]

In a XM/Mauser length/Long action the good ole Ackley ‘Bob will run the 131 Ace to 3200’ with a .150FB in a 7.5tw 25” tube. Glad to see some new options might pan out soon

Your .257 Roberts AI is running the 131BJ at 3200 fps in a 25" barrel ? That's darn impressive if it is. How's accuracy at the 3200 mark ? I was kinda thinking that was a bit high for the 25-284 in the same length barrel. Maybe not.

 

[SweaterDood]

Your .257 Roberts AI is running the 131BJ at 3200 fps in a 25" barrel ? That's darn impressive if it is. How's accuracy at the 3200 mark ? I was kinda thinking that was a bit high for the 25-284 in the same length barrel. Maybe not.

Yeah I hit a big pressure spike around 3250 (MRP). Accuracy is still sub 0.5moa at that speed for me, but it’s really hard on the brass. Keep in mind that I am not using premium brass though. I only get 4 firings before the pockets come loose. But I have enough brass to last 2 barrels worth at that rate, so I’m not particularly concerned.

I have found nodes at 3080ish, 3125ish, and 3160ish as well. My biggest problem is that I finished this project about the time that powder disappeared and with absolutely ZERO load data to reference, I had very little idea on what powders I needed. So I only bought a couple pounds of a few things to try. About the time I really got a load dialed, I didn’t have enough powder to load for a match. Gambled a bit on a suspected flat spot with H100V and ended up with SD = 4, ES = 11 from 6 shots zeroing (3082fps).

I would expect 25-284 to at least equal these, if only because the bullet can be seated a bit more optimally (even without a SA constrained OAL). I won’t give my exact loads here on the thread, but if you can get 50-53gr of speed dirt into the case...

 

[284winner]

Yeah I hit some pressure around 3250. Accuracy is still sub 0.5moa at that speed for me, but it’s really hard on the brass. Keep in mind that I am not using premium brass though. I only get 4 firings before the pockets come loose. But I have enough brass to last 2 barrels worth at that rate, so I’m not particularly concerned.

I have found nodes at 3080ish, 3125ish, and 3160ish as well. My biggest problem is that I finished this project about the time that powder disappeared and with absolutely ZERO load data to reference, I had very little idea on what powders I needed. So I only bought a couple pounds of a few things to try. About the time I really got a load dialed, I didn’t have enough powder to load for a match. Gambled a bit on a suspected flat spot with H100V and ended up with SD = 4, ES = 11 from 6 shots zeroing (3082fps).

Ok. My barrel is on the way. I should be testing by May. I have RL23/26. H4831sc and H4350. Thinking the RL23/26 will be the key powders. I'll be happy to get accuracy at 3150