Where to go next for a .223AI

[miningshawn]

So.
Just ran an OCW with CFE223 and results are kind of odd.
I am trying the 77gr OTM tactical and CFE223 in an AR platform. I had the best groups at 24.8 to 25.4 grains, but the vertical dispersion is nil from 26.2 to 26.6 grains. It didn't help that the wind picked up so hard that it was shaking my truck; but, I have been waiting 2 months to do this test and I am not waiting anymore!
I am under the impression that 26.1 to 26.5 is the place to go. Unfortunately this is an AR so I am limited to 2.270 OAL. The distance to lands is 2.325 - which means a .055 jump - the exact reason I am trying these bullets and this powder. CFE at 27 grains is a compressed load in this rifle. I also saw some extractor marks and cratering so going up isn't going to happen.
Any suggestions? Has anyone worked with a load like this; and, where would you go from here?
A shout out to McGowen, almost moa all day while doing an OCW!
Thanks in advance,
Shawn

 

[clowdis]

Found that mine shot best with 24.5 grains of CFE and the 77 grain bullet. Seemed like anything over 25 was getting a little strong. CFE isn't a temperature stable powder so a max load you develop now won't be any good in a couple of months. I can also tell you this "CFE does not not like to be compressed"! I'd wait for a calmer day and try the loads again going from 25 to 26.5 in .3 grain increments. Looks like you're finding the same thing I did, there just isn't much accuracy spread over the loading range. For me, the CFE seemed to like it near the top of the loading limit.
edit: Ahah, I see you have an AI. I haven't been there with the .223AI, just the standard .223. Completely off the record, I'd think 2 more grains of powder would be about right and near max.

 

[thatguyshm]

I would probably play around 26.3 and look into ASC mags for an bit longer oal, should be able to get close to 2.3". I've even windowed 5 round mags in my 6.8 to get a longer OAL than mag. If you don't want to try that just for giggles try it at 2.260" to see what will happen. Those 77's are designed around standard AR COALs , so give it a go.

26.3 would put you between two very similar groups, vertical looks good, wind may have affected horizontal.

Just my thoughts on it

 

[10at6]

Reloader 15 has been the best powder in my two 223AI, ARs

 

[miningshawn]

Reloader 15 has been the best powder in my two 223AI, ARs

RL 15 is also on the list!

 

[Bc'z]

Not wanting to muddy the waters, but heres a couple of my thoughts.
I like the POI flat line of 26.2 thru 26.8 this is where I'd start a seating test.
Now your stuck at mag length of 2.27"
I've windowed the front of a steel 10 shot mag to alleviate this problem. I can seat out to
2.371 mag well length in my 6x45.
Heres a shot of 70gr nosler bt set long to give you an idea.
I'm currently working with 68 gr barts but dont have any seated to show length.
This will help you get closer to touch.
I have not tried cfe223, but do run w748,
Imr 4895 with good success.
In a standard 223 in a AR platform I run
Bench mark with great accuracy.
My next plan of attack is benchmark with the 6x45 as I've only got to .5moa with w748 and the 68gr barts.
Hope I didn't create to much confusion and gave you somthing to think about.

 

[Webster]

So.
Just ran an OCW with CFE223 and results are kind of odd.
I am trying the 77gr OTM tactical and CFE223 in an AR platform. I had the best groups at 24.8 to 25.4 grains, but the vertical dispersion is nil from 26.2 to 26.6 grains. It didn't help that the wind picked up so hard that it was shaking my truck; but, I have been waiting 2 months to do this test and I am not waiting anymore!
I am under the impression that 26.1 to 26.5 is the place to go. Unfortunately this is an AR so I am limited to 2.270 OAL. The distance to lands is 2.325 - which means a .055 jump - the exact reason I am trying these bullets and this powder. CFE at 27 grains is a compressed load in this rifle. I also saw some extractor marks and cratering so going up isn't going to happen.
Any suggestions? Has anyone worked with a load like this; and, where would you go from here?
A shout out to McGowen, almost moa all day while doing an OCW!
Thanks in advance,
Shawn
View attachment 1103593 View attachment 1103593

If you want accuracy why did you buy an AR? Any factory bolt action rifle will shoot about 1 MOA groups. My Rem 700 shoots all handloads under .400".

 

[miningshawn]

I have given serious thought to windowing magazines and I probably will soon; but, I am hoping to find a combination that lets me use a 2.275 OAL with a 69gr or greater projectile.
Before this I managed to get down to .3MOA with 77gr Sierra TMK's and Varget but I would get too many flyers (1 in 15 or so) to ever really be comfortable with it.
The next one was 75gr Hornady w Varget and H335. No comment. Moved on to this test to keep trying for a true 1/4MOA all day load.
I have started neck turning and will include it on the next CFE223 test. Still leaning towards 26.1 to 26.6 in one grain incriments with a fixed 2.275OAL - but that lower node does look interesting!

 

[miningshawn]

If you want accuracy why did you buy an AR? Any factory bolt action rifle will shoot about 1 MOA groups. My Rem 700 shoots all handloads under .400".

Why buy or accurize anything? Descending on a patch of gophers with an accurate AR instead of a bolt gun is like wielding the hammer of Thor.
Unless you're just an AR hayter. Then nothing I say matters.

 

[acloco]

H4895

 

[Webster]

Why buy or accurize anything? Descending on a patch of gophers with an accurate AR instead of a bolt gun is like wielding the hammer of Thor.
Unless you're just an AR hayter. Then nothing I say matters.

Are you allowed to use a semi auto for hunting? They are banned in most states even for varmints.

 

[Bc'z]

5 round magazine in Oregon

 

[Hoser]

If you want accuracy why did you buy an AR? Any factory bolt action rifle will shoot about 1 MOA groups. My Rem 700 shoots all handloads under .400".

Hmmm. Here is five shots at 600 yards with a 6 Grendel. LaRue OBR 5.56 Seems plenty accurate to me for a gasser.

 

[Hoser]

I have a 223 Ackley that I shoot 69 TMKs through. With the Kreiger 20 inch barrel they go just over 3,000 with a casefull of Varget. Barrel life is also excellent. They hold well under .5 MOA out past 500 yards. But when the wind picks up, they dont hold a candle to heavier bullets.

 

[miningshawn]

I decided to push forward with the 26+ grain node. The 26.2 and 26.4 looked best - I chose 26.4 because it had the least vertical dispersion and it left some room for temperature variation.
Being limited by magazine length I tried changing the seating depth from 2.255 up to 2.275. The question now is should I window a magazine and try seating longer; or, should I be happy with 26.4gr, 2.265 OAL and continue developing the rifle?
As a closing note - it has been gusty every day. On the first calm day I get I am going to try the load at 200 yds and 25 shots.