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Where should I look for the cause of the flyer?

I just picked up a used factory Savage FTR 308 that had about 200 rounds down the tube. These groups were produced by several diffrent loads using diffrent components, I cannot isolate the cause of the flyer! The flyer occures wheather the barrel has been cleaned or after 75 rounds. The rifle has about 400 rounds down the tube, 200 by me in the last couple of weeks. The flyer is ruining what should be a 1/2 MOA or better rifle and turning it in to a 3/4 MOA rifle which is unacceptable!! All help is appriciated.

Diego
 
I would think that it is a combination of a few things..neck thickness difference, internal volume difference, powder charges not consistent, loaded rounds that differ in length from the shoulder to base or to ogive. if it were me I would check the necks first for one side thicker than the other.
hope this helps..
 
You say it does this with different loads? You have played with seating depth, powder charge, exc. Get a new barrel. :(
 
I was very consistant on the brass prep, Powder charges ect. "Lapua brass" I checked the barrel and it is free floating. I don't think it was the Indian! LOL. My other rifles, which I reload for are all 1/2 Moa shooters. The rifle did this whether shooting from the bipod or a lead sled. All rounds shot indoors so no wind.

Diego
 
Read Stan Pate's article on this same site about torque adjustments to the action screws. Google "Stan Pate Savage", the article will come up... I had the same problem, this recommendation cured it.
 
Thank you skibar_tex !...and....diego-ted, welcome to my world. I am having the same malody with a newly purchased, barely used Savage 6.5x284, but the flyer is much closer, just out if the group. The recommended article gives me new hope, and may just cure the situation. There is a wealth of knowledge on this site from some great shooters and great Americans. I could just be a little turn of a screw away from success. We'll see.
 
I did play with the tuning of the action screws a bit, not to the extent of the article, but it did not seem to have much affect on my problem, maybe I will have to take it all the way down and work my way up.

Diego
 
Ted, my two Savage 12F rifles never shot consistently until I had them pillar bedded. Then, they both responded as expected to load development and shot well and reliably.
 
Steve, deep down I suspect the stock may be the issue. I have sent the rifle to Larry at LPR, he works with the savage f/tr regularly. He will piller bet the stock and take care of any rifle gremlins. Then I will be sure the rifle can shoot all of it's potential. The rest will be up to me.

Thx Ted
 
Please give us a follow up afterwards. I am chasing an issue as well. Mine is pillar bedded etc. Be interesting to see what you find.

Ken
 
When you get this flyer do you mark the brass? Just because it is Lapua brass doesn't mean that it is perfect. It may be that the brass is causing the flyer. Next time you fire a few groups mark the brass that caused the flyer, and segregate it. When you have 5 brass that you know all go into the same hole, then try to shoot a group and see if you still have the flyer.
 
There are many good and valid suggestions in the above replies.

However, let me share this. My Savage, with its factory barrel chambered in .260 Rem (yep, they made a few) did the same thing -- spliting groups, often as much a 3 + 2 as often as a 4 +1. Drove me nuts. I changed brass (eventually necking up Lapua .243 Win brass). I tried a half-dozen powders, and every bullet type I could get my hands on. I filled up a spreadsheet with load info testing every possible seating depth.

Then I screwed off the factory tube, and put on a PacNor 3-groove supermatch, chambered in 6mmBR. No other changes to gun -- same trigger, same stock, same scope, same rings.

With the new, custom barrel the split groups ceased. No more flyers -- just like that. In fact I had 120+ rounds through the gun before I had one shot that wasn't at least touching the main cluster at 100 yards. Read more here: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek036.html
 
I'm with Steve on this. Get the stock bedded. I have a Savage BR model that was 'walking' in the stock. Just got it back from being bedded and haven't shot it yet for a range report. I suspect it will be fine now.
 
I will definitely get my stock bedded, but being a 6.5x284 I think I will just shoot it out this year and re-barrel, bed and make other planned changes over the winter months.
 
Not meaning to steal the thread, but I am having the same problems as diego ted.

I went to the range today with the standard load I shoot, plus up and down for powder. Brass and loads were the best I can make them. Rifle barrel as clean as I can get. Shot everything over a chrono. I set the action screws at 30,30,25. Vertical so I ended up with 45,45,30 on my pillar bedded stock.

Several thimgs I noticed. Clean bore, speeds were low but very good in es/sd. As I shot five shot groups, speed came up as bore fouled, es/sd went up as well.

After 30 rounds, a small break to simulate a relay change, I shot my last 15 shots like I would in a relay. 100 yards, light wind. I ended up with a group just as his. 12 shots, about 3/4"....3 shots 1" away in a 3/8" group...

I came back and double checked brass water capacity. No big change.


I do believe it is time for an aftermarket barrel to reach the next level!

Just hope the shilen I ordered last month gets here soon.....
 
I must be old school, but I can't imagine a serious effort with a rifle that had not been bedded. I think that there must be a generational gap. When I started playing with my first CF rifle, I found out pretty quickly that all of the better shooters routinely bedded, or had their rifles bedded, so I got some Microbed ( I learned about better materials after that.),adapted some tools that I already had, and did some improvising, and learned how to bed that first rifle. I guess I was lucky in that it was a used rifle that had a stock that needed refinishing, so I did the whole thing, fitted a recoil pad, refinished the stock, floated the barrel, and bedded the action. It was a LH 788 (22" barrel) and when it was done, it shot and looked better than it had before. A few rifles later, I did my first pillar bedding job, and it produced more consistent results than the conventional bedding had. If that first rifle had been some expensive, beautiful rifle, I would have probably been afraid to touch it. Find yourself an old ugly rifle that has some potential, and expand your horizons. Learn to do the work that you are currently paying for. It is a lot of fun when it works better, and you will enjoy the feeling of accomplishment. I should also mention that I bedded that first rifle several times, trying different approaches, and that was all good experience.
 
Bronc, no problem, I think it is good to know this is not an isolated issue. Boyd, I thought I did a lot of research prior to buying this particular rifle. The reason I chose the Savage FTR was the reported out of the box success, a rifle that needs nothing and would out perform me until I had shot out the barrel! I have no problem spending the money to make this rifle shoot consistently, I just did not expect to have to do it out of the box.
 
I am not saying that bedding is your problem, just that having it done...correctly, is the usual for any serious effort. While I am on the subject, let me make a recommendation. Tom Meredith has an excellent reputation for this kind of work, among such people as the short range benchrest crowd. I would have him tell you, what the best approach for you rifle is. Another thing, just because bedding looks good with the barreled action out of the stock does not mean that it is correct. The correct way to check bedding involves the use of a dial indicator. You might want to research that. Whoever you have do any of your work, I would much rather send a rifle off than deal with someone who does not have a reputation for building competition rifles, preferably benchrest.
 

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