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When to upgrade?

Lucky6547

Silver $$ Contributor
Hello,
At what score or skill level for FTR, both 600 and 1000, would you say a shooter would benefit from a full custom over a Remington 700? How many points would you say a custom would add?
Out of the last 1200 points possible, I’ve shot 1194-61x at 600 yards. I’m going to need to rebarrel soon anyway, should I just keep trucking with what I have, or would a custom action add enough to make it worth it?
Thanks,
Ken
 
As long as the "custom" rifle is reasonably done by a competent gunsmith, having the new setup is never going to "hurt" you. However, having one may not always facilitate a noticeable improvement in your scores. It all depends on what the limiting factor is for your shooting prior to obtaining the new custom build. If the rifle was not the limiting factor, you may not see a noticeable increase in your scores right away.

One way to assess this is to shoot practice targets at 600/1000 under dead calm, or at least very mild conditions, if you can ever reliably get such conditions. If you can shoot cleans/very high scores with good X-counts (especially at 600 yd) using your current Remy 700 setup, it may be that your rifle setup is already performing adequately. But this is a very subjective method and the question you're really asking is one that may be difficult to answer definitively.

For myself, I use my initial load development at 100 yd as a rough guide. When I can reliably shoot quarter MOA groups at 100 yd with a developed load, I have yet to encounter a situation where that load and setup wasn't capable of winning matches at 600 yd or further, as long as I was on top of the wind conditions and/or didn't make any stupid mental errors such as crossfiring. If the best I can typically do with a particular load and setup is more like 0.35 to 0.4 or 0.5 MOA at 100 yd, then I'm probably leaving something on the table shooting it in a match. That doesn't mean it isn't possible to shoot a good score with such a setup, but your wind calls have to be that much better than everyone else's. Buying a custom setup is a big expense and unfortunately, it isn't always easy to know with certainty whether your current setup is the limiting factor in your game.
 
you will be able to sell any high end action for 75-95% of what you pay for it,,,,,,if buying a used custom action it will be 80-90%....if you ever sell them....
 
I would say 4 of the missed points were because I held off, but not enough, and they were just out. The remaining two were truly WTF happened there shots.
Gun handling was not a problem.
Were the 6 points you lost on call? Were they out due to wind? Was gun handling involved in the points you lost?
 
I take it the 700 is a repeater, already running with competition level barrel. But either way, even if it were a single shot 40-X, half your recent shots are X’s at 600, (more X’s than 10’s) and so I’m thinking it’s really the point drops you want to isolate.

If your score was beaten in the same matches by a custom TR rifle, I could see the inclination to upgrade. You have one of those scores that might or might not be at the top of the TR finishers, and so it’s difficult to surmise exactly how that gun is doing with you, but the x count is very healthy.

This is speculation, but I’d say based on that X count, where you do in fact hit 10-X’s for every 9, it would tend to indicate your wind calls account for 9’s, not an inaccurate rifle. I have never seen a competitor express regret over paying for a custom action that did not immediately raise scores, though.

There are two benefits to upgrading apart from score; the entire match may be more enjoyable to shoot based on their feel, and because the “top” is a cluster in midrange, you won’t be wondering anymore if the action held back your placement.
 
Sounds like your combo shoots good, and we all ( At least i do ) need more work in high wind calls or more time behind the trigger.
I built a Custom anyway and with my first outing shot a personal best. ( just becsuse i was feeling so good about my new action and setup.) for me alot of it is mental and attitude. When i feel good i shoot good.
Thats just me .. and my scores are better with my new Action and paint job.
 
Hello,
At what score or skill level for FTR, both 600 and 1000, would you say a shooter would benefit from a full custom over a Remington 700? How many points would you say a custom would add?
Out of the last 1200 points possible, I’ve shot 1194-61x at 600 yards. I’m going to need to rebarrel soon anyway, should I just keep trucking with what I have, or would a custom action add enough to make it worth it?
Thanks,
Ken
At some point you have to have a custom. If you have the money now is as good of time as any. Do your homework and get what you want.
 
That is a great score! If you want a full custom then go for it. I found that upgrading one thing at a time allowed me to know how the change effected my shooting. I was glad I did it that way because when I changed stocks things went crazy. The stock profile was much different and it took me a while to get it figured out. If I had changed everything I would have been lost as to where I was having issues.
 
I was shooting an upgraded Savage In FTR and made HM with it at 600, barely. When I upgraded to a full custom, my scores increased some. But, you get diminishing returns near the top so any improvements are subtle and small. Was it worthwhile? Absolutely yes! I know now that my
limiting factors are me and my load and not the rig. Go for it.
 
As long as the "custom" rifle is reasonably done by a competent gunsmith, having the new setup is never going to "hurt" you. However, having one may not always facilitate a noticeable improvement in your scores. It all depends on what the limiting factor is for your shooting prior to obtaining the new custom build. If the rifle was not the limiting factor, you may not see a noticeable increase in your scores right away.

One way to assess this is to shoot practice targets at 600/1000 under dead calm, or at least very mild conditions, if you can ever reliably get such conditions. If you can shoot cleans/very high scores with good X-counts (especially at 600 yd) using your current Remy 700 setup, it may be that your rifle setup is already performing adequately. But this is a very subjective method and the question you're really asking is one that may be difficult to answer definitively.

For myself, I use my initial load development at 100 yd as a rough guide. When I can reliably shoot quarter MOA groups at 100 yd with a developed load, I have yet to encounter a situation where that load and setup wasn't capable of winning matches at 600 yd or further, as long as I was on top of the wind conditions and/or didn't make any stupid mental errors such as crossfiring. If the best I can typically do with a particular load and setup is more like 0.35 to 0.4 or 0.5 MOA at 100 yd, then I'm probably leaving something on the table shooting it in a match. That doesn't mean it isn't possible to shoot a good score with such a setup, but your wind calls have to be that much better than everyone else's. Buying a custom setup is a big expense and unfortunately, it isn't always easy to know with certainty whether your current setup is the limiting factor in your game.
Based on how many shots in the group?? 5?
 
Based on how many shots in the group?? 5?
5. Shooting a larger number of rounds is more testing the shooter than the rifle and load. Arguably, even 3 shots are more than enough to tell the tale, especially when they're all practically in the same hole. That doesn't happen "by accident". In fact, I know a few high level shooters that are capable of setting a tuner with two shots, or even one at each setting. Their track record in matches speaks for itself. Debating the number of shots required for statistical "validity" is common, but it's wasted effort, IMO. Nothing we do in the reloading and shooting process is without significant bias, regardless of the number of shots in a group, no matter how much some would like to think it is. We're trying to put every shot in the same hole every time we shoot. Let that sink in for a minute and then consider whether the entire process might be inherently biased. It is.
 
Well, I rebarrelled the Remington to keep as a backup, and this is what I did last outing at 600. That “9, one on” hurt a bit…

The full custom is still at the gunsmiths. Maybe I should have used this barrel for that gun?
 

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An update to this post after a few months with the new full custom:
Last years 600 yard club “winter league” was the best six targets over January through March. For 2022 with my Remington, I shot a 1200-68x. This year with the full custom I have so far shot 1200-84x. 16x is a definite improvement, but also not as easy to see from just that score is that the full custom has less difference between the highs and the lows I shoot as well. With the Remington once I settled on a load, I would shoot as low as 192-8x trying my best. My lowest score with the new gun is 195-7x, which honestly could have been better because I was just blowing rounds off after I dropped the first 9 (I’m tied exactly with another guy, we have next week to try to get an X on each other for the win, so once I dropped a point that target didn’t matter).
Side note: my loading hasn’t changed between these guns, same reamer, same sizing and seating dies, same trimmer, always annealed, same powder, bullets, brass and primers and the same scale.
So I’m happy with the new gun, and if you’re serious about it, and you can afford it, go the full custom route.
 

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