What's the deal with the 6 BRA?

[4xforfun]

I have been active on this site for many years. I've seen lots of new ideas mentioned on this form. Some made it some didn't. Some we're good ideas, and some not so much. Less than a year ago I saw somebody mention the 6 BR AI and he was told that it was a waste of time. Less than a year later the 6BRA...6BRAI...6BR improved... is all anybody can talk about. Pretty much every other thread is 6 BRAI related!!

What's the deal? Is it really that good? Will it be the next 6 Dasher at 1000 yards? Will it be better suited for 600?

Let's hear what you have to say!

 

[GT Accuracy]

It seems it is much easier to tune and has a wider tune window than the dasher. Several records have been set with it this year alone. Is it better than the dasher in terms of accuracy - I don't know that answer. Shooting at 1000 for group is a tough act and the guys that do it well are phenomenal shooters with precise gear.

The ones to talk to about this are @Alex Wheeler and @tom - they seem to be the ones that have the most history / testing with it and will steer you in the right direction.

Personally, with all the hoopla about it this year, if you can afford it, you should have one in your stable.

 

[holstil]

I thank Sam hall for making me spend more money. If Sam says it's good, it's good!

 

[Terry Altom]

Mine is in the stable now.

 

[Terry]

Old is now new.

Some local shooters have been shooting this for 10 years.

 

[4xforfun]

I thank Sam hall for making me spend more money. If Sam says it's good, it's good!

Sam's Forte is 600 BR, correct?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Old is now new.

Some local shooters have been shooting this for 10 years.

What's the difference between it and a BR-DX?

 

[holstil]

Sam's Forte is 600 BR, correct?

For awhile now Sam has been shooting 600. Lately though, has been shooting 1k.
He used to shoot 1k. As I understand it.

If Sam said I should try square bb's, I'd give it a go.

I hope I wasn't the cause of something needing settled, the chambering's creator should get the credit. I was just showing respect to Sam and the 6BRAI.

Lots of very talented people using both.!
I've heard the big 30's agg better at 1k.

 

[Raythemanroe]

BRA's are catching some wondering eyes..


Ray

 

[4xforfun]

For awhile now Sam has been shooting 600. Lately though, has been shooting 1k.
He used to shoot 1k. As I understand it.

If Sam said I should try square bb's, I'd give it a go.

I hope I wasn't the cause of something needing settled, the chambering's creator should get the credit. I was just showing respect to Sam and the 6BRAI.

Lots of very talented people using both.!
I've heard the big 30's agg better at 1k.

Yep for a long while Sam Hall and King Richard were the gods of 600.

 

[Terry]

Yep for a long while Sam Hall and King Richard were the gods of 600.

Both are good and humble men. Both are excellent competitors. If we only knew 1/2 of what they know.

Neither would be comfortable with the label gods.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

BRA's are catching some wondering eyes..


Ray

Ha! I think that's due to all the hype and think people are trying to rationalize how it can be so close to a straight 6BR and a 6 BRDX, yet be touted as the next coming.

That said, being so similar is not a bad thing, as several proven cartridges are virtually identical to it, so it can't be too bad. The flip side is, it can't be much better either, than cartridges virtually identical that are both slightly smaller and slightly larger.
Yes, little things do matter but, I for one, have a hard time believing that it's significantly better or worse than cartridges so similar in every aspect.

I'm beginning to think it's all marketing and having them in the hands of top shooters with good components. In my mind, there are other variables that are more important than the tiny differences in case design, such as barrels, bullets, powders, stocks, rests..and the list goes on. I think we have the best barrels being made right now, that we've ever had, for example. I've seen some of the best barrels ever, just recently. This is on my own stuff as well as customers'. On my own rifles and with known chambers, I have seen the differences, consistently and repeatably. Some of that may be due to a new barrel maker that I've been using a fair amount lately. Records have been falling lately, at a nice pace, for sure. Several factors come into play with any new record. It takes top notch stuff and the stars have to align, as well. Do we have ranges that are more conducive to shooting well, too? Sure, that too plays a big role, particularly at longer ranges.
Then we have the natural tendency for shooters to get better by simply pushing themselves to get better, when they shoot against better quality competition.

I'm a huge proponent for trying new things and have done it pretty much for my whole shooting and custom riflesmithing career. That said, while I'm not afraid to try new stuff, I don't take anyone's word for it being better or worse until I prove it to myself, one way or the other.

Lots of factors here, but I'm happy any time when the game is advancing, for whatever reason...and I hope that this old but new cartridge proves better, in the long run. But, as I just said, this is not a new cartridge. So, what has changed, really?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have chambered more dasher barrels than 6 BRA barrels. My personal 6 BRA reamer has 7 pending world records on it this year alone, IBS, Williamsport, NBRSA, only 2 of them came from Montana. All my dasher reamers combined dont have that many records. I would say I have chambered about 50 6 BRA barrels. I get the feed back from customers. In my mind there is no doubt its better in every way. Not a single guy has went back to a dasher from a BRA. I give my opinions on parts, components and loads to my customers. The only difference is the reamer that goes into the blank, and the difference in feedback has been huge. Remember I want my guns to win everything. So I steer people to try and help that happen. It takes the highest level of shooter to be able to see a difference with a small change. My advise is find a really good shooter who is a consistent winner that has tried a dasher and a 6BRA and ask him. Thats the only opinion that should matter. The BRA is closer to a standard br than a brdx. The dx is closer to a dasher. Sam Hall was the first that I heard of to be using this case in long range. I am sure some one did it in the late 70s. New or old makes no difference. The proof is on the paper.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I have chambered more dasher barrels than 6 BRA barrels. My personal 6 BRA reamer has 7 pending world records on it this year alone, IBS, Williamsport, NBRSA, only 2 of them came from Montana. All my dasher reamers combined dont have that many records. I would say I have chambered about 50 6 BRA barrels. I get the feed back from customers. In my mind there is no doubt its better in every way. Not a single guy has went back to a dasher from a BRA. I give my opinions on parts, components and loads to my customers. The only difference is the reamer that goes into the blank, and the difference in feedback has been huge. Remember I want my guns to win everything. So I steer people to try and help that happen. It takes the highest level of shooter to be able to see a difference with a small change. My advise is find a really good shooter who is a consistent winner that has tried a dasher and a 6BRA and ask him. Thats the only opinion that should matter. The BRA is closer to a standard br than a brdx. The dx is closer to a dasher. Sam Hall was the first that I heard of to be using this case in long range. I am sure some one did it in the late 70s. New or old makes no difference. The proof is on the paper.

I agree with all of that. The biggest kicker though, is that it's been around for a while but only recently started breaking records. Why...is the $64,000 question. One could chamber up ten barrels of each and wear them out, and still have a tiny sampling of relevance. I've never been a huge Dasher fan. It's just been hard to knock their results over the years. Part of their success comes from popularity, as it's been very popular for a long time. It's a good round, for sure, but if 100% of shooters shot a 30-30 at 600 or 1000 yards...a 100% of matches would be won with a 30-30.

Like I said...lots of variables. It is impressive how it's faired so far though, no doubt about that. This is very much a monkey see, monkey do sport. Get a few really good shooters to start knocking down records and it can and has snowballed. But it's still the same cartridge it was when it first came out...you mentioned in the 70's. What stopped it then?

Don't get me wrong Alex...It's obviously a good cartridge, any way you shake it.

 

[jamesdmock]

I have shot the Dasher for about 9 years and it has been an excellent cartridge. I am new to the 6 BRA but it does show some promise. I shoot 600 yard matches and have only one match with the 6 BRA....in which I finished second (to a Dasher). On October 21, I will shoot my second match and will have a better feel for the capability of the BRA. I did not have much time to tune for the first match but I now think that I may have a better handle on a good load (we will see). I tested a load Monday (31.5 gr. Varget/ 105 Bart Infinity VLD/Fed. 205) and was able to shoot a pair of .3's at 200 yds.(3-shot groups) with the bullets set at .010 off jam. My equipment is as follows: BAT model B, Brux HV 30" w/ .236 bore and Ezell tuner/ Leonard stock and 15-60X Vortex Golden Eagle. The stock was glued in by Terry Leonard and Billy Stevens does my chambering. I am looking forward to seeing if this new cartridge will serve me as did the Dasher. Good shooting....James

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I have shot the Dasher for about 9 years and it has been an excellent cartridge. I am new to the 6 BRA but it does show some promise. I shoot 600 yard matches and have only one match with the 6 BRA....in which I finished second (to a Dasher). On October 21, I will shoot my second match and will have a better feel for the capability of the BRA. I did not have much time to tune for the first match but I now think that I may have a better handle on a good load (we will see). I tested a load Monday (31.5 gr. Varget/ 105 Bart Infinity VLD/Fed. 205) and was able to shoot a pair of .3's at 200 yds.(3-shot groups) with the bullets set at .010 off jam. My equipment is as follows: BAT model B, Brux HV 30" w/ .236 bore and Ezell tuner/ Leonard stock and 15-60X Vortex Golden Eagle. The stock was glued in by Terry Leonard and Billy Stevens does my chambering. I am looking forward to seeing if this new cartridge will serve me as did the Dasher. Good shooting....James

I think you'll do just fine and I bet you'll be happy. Good luck James. Hope you bring home a bunch a fake wood.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I agree with all of that. The biggest kicker though, is that it's been around for a while but only recently started breaking records. Why...is the $64,000 question. One could chamber up ten barrels of each and wear them out, and still have a tiny sampling of relevance. I've never been a huge Dasher fan. It's just been hard to knock their results over the years. Part of their success comes from popularity, as it's been very popular for a long time. It's a good round, for sure, but if 100% of shooters shot a 30-30 at 600 or 1000 yards...a 100% of matches would be won with a 30-30.

Like I said...lots of variables. It is impressive how it's faired so far though, no doubt about that. This is very much a monkey see, monkey do sport. Get a few really good shooters to start knocking down records and it can and has snowballed. But it's still the same cartridge it was when it first came out...you mentioned in the 70's. What stopped it then?

Don't get me wrong Alex...It's obviously a good cartridge, any way you shake it.

They didnt shoot long range in the 70s. Anyhow the mentality was bigger is better. The dasher catches on (for good reason) and guys just dont experiment much. Why it was not setting records? It takes more than just a cartridge to set a record. So like I said, same gunsmith, same customers, same components, barrels, bullets, powder, exc. and its far exceeding my dasher reamers. One of those records came from a dasher I set back 2 turns, that was a great comparison. Theres nothing to profit from as its not proprietary. But if you call me and ask for a dasher, Im going to tell you all about the 6 BRA.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

They didnt shoot long range in the 70s. Anyhow the mentality was bigger is better. The dasher catches on (for good reason) and guys just dont experiment much. Why it was not setting records? It takes more than just a cartridge to set a record. So like I said, same gunsmith, same customers, same components, barrels, bullets, powder, exc. and its far exceeding my dasher reamers. One of those records came from a dasher I set back 2 turns, that was a great comparison. Theres nothing to profit from as its not proprietary. But if you call me and ask for a dasher, Im going to tell you all about the 6 BRA.

What is your best guess as to what makes it better than say, a BR,Dasher, BRX or BR-DX?

 

[4xforfun]

I have chambered more dasher barrels than 6 BRA barrels. My personal 6 BRA reamer has 7 pending world records on it this year alone, IBS, Williamsport, NBRSA, only 2 of them came from Montana. All my dasher reamers combined dont have that many records. I would say I have chambered about 50 6 BRA barrels. I get the feed back from customers. In my mind there is no doubt its better in every way. Not a single guy has went back to a dasher from a BRA. I give my opinions on parts, components and loads to my customers. The only difference is the reamer that goes into the blank, and the difference in feedback has been huge. Remember I want my guns to win everything. So I steer people to try and help that happen. It takes the highest level of shooter to be able to see a difference with a small change. My advise is find a really good shooter who is a consistent winner that has tried a dasher and a 6BRA and ask him. Thats the only opinion that should matter. The BRA is closer to a standard br than a brdx. The dx is closer to a dasher. Sam Hall was the first that I heard of to be using this case in long range. I am sure some one did it in the late 70s. New or old makes no difference. The proof is on the paper.

Alex,

Those pending records.....600 or 1000 yard?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

What is your best guess as to what makes it better than say, a BR,Dasher, BRX or BR-DX?

The reason I decided to get a BRA reamer was because I was looking for something smaller than a dasher. I believe the dasher is on the edge of too much case for the bullets we shoot. Thats why it can be a little picky some days. I was looking at the ppc case, some improved version. I remembered Sam Hall playing with this thing and it seemed perfect. So I think it is a better capacity. I spoke with Tom about the DX, he had a few and they would not shoot with a dasher, why, who knows. I know there is more going on than simply the capacity. Then the fireforming. You cant screw up making BRA cases. All the ways of making dasher brass other than hydro can and do cause issues. If formed cases vary in oal lenght more than they did new, your making inconsistent cases.
To wrap it up,
More ideal capacity for the 105 class bullets (efficiency)
Case shape holds more pressure than parent allowing dasher velocities
Almost impossible to not fire form perfect cases

Those are just the things I can think of, I am not an expert in internal ballistics. I just look at the results, this thing aint my baby and if it didnt work Id ditch it in a heartbeat.