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Big Bart Sauter Story -- 6 BRA Tack Driver Winner

Is there literature out that explains what your looking for when doing load development at the range for current condition? I assume your looking for small round groups at your POA.
 
Kracken McGraw said:
Is there literature out that explains what your looking for when doing load development at the range for current condition? I assume your looking for small round groups at your POA.
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In short range, (100-200-300yards), what we are looking for is what many of us call ”the agging capability” of a particular combination. In lay terms, that is the Rifles capability, (not yours), of putting five consecutive groups down range where the average of those five groups will be .200 or better.
This goes for both a Rifle dedicated to Group Shooting or one dedicated to Score Shooting.

I use the word “combination” because that encompasses the different items that can keep a bullet from taking the exact same pass as the one before.

Seating depth, neck tension, powder charge, and if you use one a tuner are the most common. Of course, I am assuming that the Rifle, including the barrel and bullets, are up to the task.

When loading at the range, you can immediately on the spot change any one thing to see the affect it has. Since you are shooting over flags, you can see how the conditions can affect any given combination. If a bullet does not go where you think it should have gone, you can immediately load another and see if it was you, the condition, or the load.

You are correct when you describe what I am looking for. Round groups Is one way to describe it, but most of all a load combination that handles conditions well.

You might have read where I describe a “horizontal tune”. That is a tune where you seem to get horizontal stringing where you cannot see by your flags what pushed the bullets in that direction. This is not a good thing. I see people at the “wailing wall“ looking at a group that is straight across and say, “well, I must have missed something because the tune is good”.

No, it’s not. If you can not see the condition that compels bullets to go straight to the left or right, then something is amiss with the tune. You need to get it shooting round groups as small as your components will allow.

Many shooters cure this with seating depth. Since I use a tuner, I have the option of kicking a little vertical in the tune. This is extremly important in score shooting.

Now, after looking at my range setup, you will ask….”how are you keeping your powder charges to the nearest .01 grn”. The answer is, I don’t. For 100/200/300 Group and Score shooting, the powder charge simply does not have to be that close. Heck, for decades, I threw charges out of a measure, which despite what you read, is only good for +- .2 grn. I now use a ChargeMaster Lite because it is accurate enough and reall pretty convenient. It has a great wind guard, and runs off of the battery pack you see in the picture.

If and when I try to get into longer range shooting, I might have to modify things to encompass the variables that long range presents, mainly in achieving extremly close velocity spreads. But for now, in the Matches I compete in, what I have laid out in this thread works fine.

By image.jpgthe way, I am at the range now. Beautiful morning, 40 degrees and sunny. This I my 30BR setup.

image.jpg
Here is the last target I shot this morning. 6B3AD44D-324E-4172-B093-17709DD7B066.jpeg
 
Last edited:
jackieschmidt said:
In short range, (100-200-300yards), what we are looking for is what many of us call ”the agging capability” of a particular combination. In lay terms, that is the Rifles capability, (not yours), of putting five consecutive groups down range where the average of those five groups will be .200 or better.
This goes for both a Rifle dedicated to Group Shooting or one dedicated to Score Shooting.

I use the word “combination” because that encompasses the different items that can keep a bullet from taking the exact same pass as the one before.

Seating depth, neck tension, powder charge, and if you use one a tuner are the most common. Of course, I am assuming that the Rifle, including the barrel and bullets, are up to the task.

When loading at the range, you can immediately on the spot change any one thing to see the affect it has. Since you are shooting over flags, you can see how the conditions can affect any given combination. If a bullet does not go where you think it should have gone, you can immediately load another and see if it was you, the condition, or the load.

You are correct when you describe what I am looking for. Round groups Is one way to describe it, but most of all a load combination that handles conditions well.

You might have read where I describe a “horizontal tune”. That is a tune where you seem to get horizontal stringing where you cannot see by your flags what pushed the bullets in that direction. This is not a good thing. I see people at the wailing wall looking a t a group that is straight across and say, “well, I must have missed something because at the tune is good”.

No, it’s not. If you can not see the condition that compels bullets to go straight to the left or right, then something is amiss with the tune. You need to get it shooting round groups as small as your components will allow.

Many shooters cure this with seating depth. Since I use a tuner, I have the option of kicking a little vertical in the tune. This is extremly important in score shooting.

Now, after looking at my range setup, you will ask….”how are you keeping your powder charges to the nearest .01 grn”. The answer is, I don’t. For 100/200/300 Group and Score shooting, the powder charge simply does not have to be that close. Heck, for decades, I threw charges out of a measure, which despite what you read, is only good for +- .2 grn. I kpnow use a ChargeMaster because it is accurate enough and reall pretty convenient.

If and when I try to get into longer range shooting, I might have to modify things to encompass the variables that long range presents, mainly in achieving extremly close velocity spreads. But for now, it the Matches I compete in, what I have laid out in this thread works fine.
Click to expand...
Thanks much Jackie, that was very helpful!
 
Ccrider said:
@BartsBullets, what are your thoughts about the 30br. Why did you choose the bra over it?
Click to expand...
I simplified my life several years ago after playing with a variety of different cartridges and wild cats. So for competition I thinned the herd down to 6PPC and the 6BRA.

Looking at the results I’m not for sure a straight 30BR is the correct horse for the course. There were 21- 30BRs in the field and they were out preformed by a hand full of other 30 cal cartridges (30WW, 30 Dasher, 30WSM). Highest placing straight 30BR in the Grand Agg 17th. The 30BR did not do great in group, score or the Grand Agg.

Bart
 
If you look back to the original Tackdriver I and Tackdriver II threads, I posted some data on both of them showing essentially finish rankings by caliber. The straight 30BR did not fare real well in either match. I have to assume that a number of those shooters are accomplished competitors so my conclusion was basically what Bart said. The 30BR is not the right cartridge for this match. Although it is great for the 100 / 200 yard normal score competition, it appears to be out of gas at the 300 meter distance. Next year might prove to be different but that would only be 1/3rd of the time.
 
The home for the 30BR, or a variant if it such as the 30WW that Wayne France shoots, is NBRSA and IBS Varmint for Score where best edge scoring is used. Wayne won the Score leg of the Tackdriver. He only dropped 3 points shooting at a 200 yard target at 300 meters. That is pretty awesome.

Eddie Harris won the Group portion with his 6PPC with very consistent shooting.

I believe that every year we go to this Match, we will learn something.
Tommie said:
Still wondering what a 30 WW is. Anyone know?
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I think it is a 30BR with the shoulder moved forward, keeping the 30 degree shoulder instead of the 40 degree found in the 6BRA.
 
jackieschmidt said:
The home for the 30BR, or a variant if it such as the 30WW that Wayne France shoots, is NBRSA and IBS Varmint for Score where best edge scoring is used. Wayne won the Score leg of the Tackdriver. He only dropped 3 points shooting at a 200 yard target at 300 meters. That is pretty awesome.

Eddie Harris won the Group portion with his 6PPC with very consistent shooting.

I believe that every year we go to this Match, we will learn something.

I think it is a 30BR with the shoulder moved forward, keeping the 30 degree shoulder instead of the 40 degree found in the 6BRA.
Click to expand...
So something like a 30 BRX?
 
Bc'z said:
Forgive my speech as I've been in the Rye..
I pick up on the subtleties, and the drop just stuck out to me.
I have a drop tube , but only use it with certain powder and cartridges.
Do y'all use a drop for everything?
Click to expand...
I have a 4”and12”. Use the 4” for everything because it’s handy.
and the 12 when I have to.
 
For those of you who who have commented on this thread, I started another over on the competition forum concerning Tackdriver wind flag reading. We would appreciate all of your flag reading insight over on that string if you would care to participate.
Joe
 
greyghost02 said:
Thanks Bart from all of us that's still trying to put all of those tips together at the same time. We know your a busy man, so thanks for taking the time.
Click to expand...
my 6 Bra will have a bat machine action but it's a single shot so shooting fast i would probably be at disadvantage that's what i have so i'm going to use it .
 
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