What to do with a barrel that copper fouls fast?

[thefitter]

Besides replace it?

It's a Krieger installed heavy barrel on a custom M14. I have waited for it to break in and stop copper fouling but it just won't. Just hit the 300 round mark and I'm frustrated. Not a cheap barrel to replace especially since Krieger barreled it.

Can anything be done?

Thanks

 

[Eddie Harren]

Send it back.

 

[snert]

Agreed, how does it shoot? I have a varmint rifle that fouls badly and after 25 rounds would not hit a basketball at 100 yards. But till then it shoots under 1/2 inch. Since I use it for woodchucks and have never had an infantry charge of woodchucks, i am good. Your situation may require that the barrel not foul.

 

[thefitter]

Sorry I did not think that I needed to say it shoots less than desirable.

It does not shoot any better very clean, partially clean or fouled.

thanks

 

[madmixerman]

+1 on send it back

 

[Dans40X]

The copper fouling starts at the leade.
Do you have access to a bore scope?

What is the condition of the crown?.
Is the flash hider taper reamed
Is the flash hider held onto the Bbl splines by other means than the castle nut?
Is the action bedded,lugged,pillared?

Is this a current SAI re-barreled rifle?

Lots of options.

 

[thefitter]

The copper fouling starts at the leade.
Do you have access to a bore scope?

What is the condition of the crown?.
Is the flash hider taper reamed
Is the flash hider held onto the Bbl splines by other means than the castle nut?
Is the action bedded,lugged,pillared?

Is this a current SAI re-barreled rifle?



Lots of options.

Not sure how some of your questions affect copper fouling but here you go:

I have borescoped it and the only thing that I see is a small nick where the gas hole is. Throat looks OK.

Crown is good.

No flash hider. I use a Smth Enterprises adapter and a Badger Ordnance brake.

Only castle nut holds the adapter.

Bedded into a McMillain.

LRB M25 receiver, unissued TRW bolt.

You did not ask but, this is a carbon steel NOT a stainless steel barrel.

thanks

 

[chkunz]

You did not give a lot of info on application or expectations so I will assume that you shoot in the service rifle class in NRA XTC competition and have at least an expert classification. I have shot out many M14 barrels over the years and never worried about copper fowling. I clean after each match (88 rounds) with a good bore cleaner, mostly GI bore cleaner and never run the copper cleaner thru the barrel. I do not over do the cleaning. I am sure if I ran a patch of Sweets 7.62 thru the bore it would come out blue but I do not remember any of the old M14 service rifle shooters worrying about copper. LC brass, 41 grains of IMR 4895 powder and 168 SMK. M14s are not tack drivers, that is why we have such a big target to shoot at. If the gun will hold the ten ring just shoot it and do not worry about copper. If the barrel will not shoot then replace it, barrels are consumable items in our sport.

 

[thefitter]

You did not give a lot of info on application or expectations so I will assume that you shoot in the service rifle class in NRA XTC competition and have at least an expert classification. I have shot out many M14 barrels over the years and never worried about copper fowling. I clean after each match (88 rounds) with a good bore cleaner, mostly GI bore cleaner and never run the copper cleaner thru the barrel. I do not over do the cleaning. I am sure if I ran a patch of Sweets 7.62 thru the bore it would come out blue but I do not remember any of the old M14 service rifle shooters worrying about copper. LC brass, 41 grains of IMR 4895 powder and 168 SMK. M14s are not tack drivers, that is why we have such a big target to shoot at. If the gun will hold the ten ring just shoot it and do not worry about copper. If the barrel will not shoot then replace it, barrels are consumable items in our sport.

Thanks for your input.
The application is irrelevant and my expectations are reasonable for the barrel. I'm not going to compromise my expectations because it's "good enough" for someone elses application or expectations.

The OP was about excessive fouling.

 

[pdog]

Read this http://www.gretanrifles.com/products/details.jsf and give it a try. The whole idea is to not give the copper anywhere to build up. It has worked well for me on new barrels. Completely clean your barrel of all copper and carbon and follow the directions for a new barrel break in.
pdog

 

[thefitter]

Read this http://www.gretanrifles.com/products/details.jsf and give it a try. The whole idea is to not give the copper anywhere to build up. It has worked well for me on new barrels. Completely clean your barrel of all copper and carbon and follow the directions for a new barrel break in.
pdog

That link does not work for me and I can not find anything on his site related??

thanks

 

[Duster_360]

That link provided for Gre-Tan does not come up correctly. To see it, starting where the link stops, click "Other Gun Parts" from the menu on the left. Click "Miscellaneous" at the bottom of the list the previous step produces. Looking at "barrel break in kit" at the bottom select "view details" all the way to the right. This gets you the instructions referenced earlier.

Shot my way to Master XTC with an M1A before I had to stop and mine always copper fouled, but not excessively. Typically one pass with Sweets after a 88 shot match and it was gone. If not cleaned before the second day of a two day match, it was noticeably worse and would take several passes with Sweets. I was usually travelling and couldn't clean at the range while the barrel was still warm.This was with either Douglas chrome moly steel (few) or Kreiger SS barrels (many).

If yours fouls badly in just a few shots, I'd call Kreiger.

 

[thefitter]

That link provided for Gre-Tan does not come up correctly. To see it, starting where the link stops, click "Other Gun Parts" from the menu on the left. Click "Miscellaneous" at the bottom of the list the previous step produces. Looking at "barrel break in kit" at the bottom select "view details" all the way to the right. This gets you the instructions referenced earlier.

Shot my way to Master XTC with an M1A before I had to stop and mine always copper fouled, but not excessively. Typically one pass with Sweets after a 88 shot match and it was gone. If not cleaned before the second day of a two day match, it was noticeably worse and would take several passes with Sweets. I was usually travelling and couldn't clean at the range while the barrel was still warm.This was with either Douglas chrome moly steel (few) or Kreiger SS barrels (many).

If yours fouls badly in just a few shots, I'd call Kreiger.

Thanks!

 

[ebb]

My friend in Tenn had a new Kreiger that took forever to quiet copper fouling. It finally broke in but it shoot pretty good from the beginning. He cleaned his aggressively with JB paste many times. I think I would call Kreiger and get their opinion.

 

[Dans40X]

Sorry I did not think that I needed to say it shoots less than desirable.
It does not shoot any better very clean, partially clean or fouled.

Your above quote was the reason I asked what had been checked/installed.
How was the Bbl broken in?
A full mag after another full mag after another full mag?

Spin the Bbl off
Clean it
Hand Lap it
Bore scope it to verify that it is clean
Spin it back on the receiver
Hand load M1A/piston gun friendly ammo.
Start Bbl break in....again.

The nick in the bore that you speak of-
Is it before or after the gas hole?

 

[Lapua40X]

Clean the barrel well to remove as much fouling as possible.
Then:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/513887/tubb-final-finish-bore-lapping-system-308-caliber-and-762mm
Best solution I can think of. Tubbs stuff really works.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'd be talking to Krieger. They might have some insight into what is going on.

If it is any consolation, I have a Krieger heavy Palma on my F/TR rifle. It copper fouled way too much - It would barely make it through a day's shooting without needing cleaning. Even at that, it shot well enough until it had ~1000 rounds through it. The barrel then quit fouling and got even better! It has ~2000+ now and still shoots really tight little clusters. I haven't had a barrel before or since that took that long to settle down. On the other hand, I really enjoy shooting this barrel now.

In your case, if the accuracy isn't there, you probably have a different problem.

 

[thefitter]

Sorry I did not think that I needed to say it shoots less than desirable.
It does not shoot any better very clean, partially clean or fouled.

Your above quote was the reason I asked what had been checked/installed.
How was the Bbl broken in?
A full mag after another full mag after another full mag?

Spin the Bbl off
Clean it
Hand Lap it
Bore scope it to verify that it is clean
Spin it back on the receiver
Hand load M1A/piston gun friendly ammo.
Start Bbl break in....again.

The nick in the bore that you speak of-
Is it before or after the gas hole?

Did a normal barrel break in with FGMM. Couple rounds, clean, couple rounds for a box of 20 while zeroing scope. Then nothing but handloads with, Berger, Sierra, Hornady, Lapua.

I do not have the equipment to remove a M14 barrel and I would probably do more damage than good if I hand lapped it.

The nick is right on the edge of the gas hole where they drilled it.

Thanks

 

[4xforfun]

My last 7 or 8 Kreigers and the last 4 Brux tubes ALL quit copper fowling with 4 shots. Some after only 2 or 3.

Give them a call at the very least. I have no doubt that they will make things right for you!!

Just my .02./

Tod

 

[M14AMU]

Shoot 3 rounds and clean!