What to do...nodes are only 1/2 grain wide?

[L.Sherm]

A scope checker with a frozen scope is best, but if you dont have access then tall test or what SPJ suggested. Just seems that much vertical at 100 like previously mentioned it looks mechanical.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Below is a picture of my scope checker/recoil tester. You can get them for a reasonable price at Field & Cave Outfitters. Finding a frozen 36x or 45x Leupold competition scope is the piece of the puzzle that's hard to find. There are some threads in the forum on scope testing. Just use the search function to find them. Theres a decent amount to it and the setup is the most critical part. Unfortunately I think the biggest most informational thread on scope testing was deleted for some reason...

The scope checker can also be used to compare scopes optical quality side by side and conduct much more accurate tracking tests from a tripod. No need for any rounds to be fired from a rifle.

Bedding your scope base and rings to the scope body will always help to ensure no movement of the optic under recoil. I lap and bed scope rings and bases with JB Weld on every rifle regardless of how much recoil the scope will be subjected to. Just gives a person peace of mind knowing that the rings and bases have very solid perfect fitting 100% contact and scope movement will never be a possible issue when load testing is throwing you curve balls.








Bedded scope rings (Spuhr uni-mount)

 

[Vandy321]

I'll look into the scope checker and dig for sole threads.

Any inputs on if S&B will put this scope through the ringer for me to look for parallax or tracking errors? Not sure what their check entails if I send it in with an issue

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I’ll swing by with a couple scopes that need a look.

For sure. Tracking tests to find turret correction factors can be done anywhere. I just do them on my tripod at 25 yards with 2 scopes (one for reference and one being tested), a loggers tape to get the exact distance correct, and a 72" double yard stick hanging level from a tree.

Recoil testing can be done on any rifle, but an action having an integral rail is the best option for testing since it's a lot of weight hanging on top of the action.

However...I dont do any testing or rifle work until after hunting season unless I absolutely have to for an emergency. But after hunting season ends I'm game for any testing you want to do

 

[Thomas Campbell]

I was reading your post and can't believe no one mentioned neck tension.
I don't shoot a 300, but it makes me wonder.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I'll look into the scope checker and dig for sole threads.

Any inputs on if S&B will put this scope through the ringer for me to look for parallax or tracking errors? Not sure what their check entails if I send it in with an issue

I'm sure S&B will let you know if there is an issue and correct it. I know the 12-50 S&B benchrest scopes have been tested with scope checkers by BR competitors but I cant remember the results off hand...

The only scope brand with a 100% perfect track record of mechanical reliability under recoil testing (to my knowledge and experience) is Kahles. Numerous amounts of the K1050 and K624 models have been tested and they come out with absolutely zero POA reticle movement every time. Dont know if the glass would be quite as good as S&B, but supposedly the newest generation of Kahles scopes are using Swarovski HD glass. I have never looked through the new gen Kahles, but the original gen scopes left a little on the table in my opinion. Kahles is owned by Swarovski so it would make sense for the new scopes to have their glass if they want to have the best of both worlds in mechanical reliability AND optical quality.

 

[Vandy321]

I was reading your post and can't believe no one mentioned neck tension.
I don't shoot a 300, but it makes me wonder.

I played with neck tension on my berger load...didnt seem to matter much. Went from .0015 to .003...as stated, have only started with on the ELD-M load with one OCW so far...got sidetracked with the wonky results with +4" vertical at 100 yards over just 5 grains of powder. I use redding neck bushing die to compress necks after firing and then slightly expand out with a mandrel to set final tension, I've settled on .002 for now, but am not against playing with it again if needed

 

[Vandy321]

I have owned a K624i...was really happy with it...and for the price of a used one, might go back to it for my next piece of glass. I have swaro glass for bino/spotter...cant say my eyes are good enough to notice the benefits of S&B glass over my previous 624i

 

[Ledd Slinger]

As long as it’s ok to have a beer afterwards

Yeah that goes without saying

 

[searcher]

Those fiber wrapped jobs are outstanding when it comes to having a lightweight rifle to carry. They suck after a few shots and heating up as they tend to wander like a lost dog. Tradeoffs. Accept that you need to fire every group from a stone-cold barrel. If that isn't good enough - tell your 'smith to put a solid steel tube on it. Because that is just how those tubes react to heat. As hunting rifle barrels - shooting good groups was not the primary focus when they were made. I have done a lot of load development on a few of the Proof Research barrels and they were all the same. They shot acceptable groups with the right load - but after five shots you have to wrap the barrel with a wet towel. If you found your great group when the barrel was at all warm - it would prove to shoot different - if not elsewhere after cooling. Really - they are just like shooting the little pencil-barreled ultra-light rifles. There is nothing your gunsmith can do to fix that wandering short of replacing with a good solid steel tube. And don't get a fluted barrel unless it was at least drilled and rifled after the fluting was done - which a lot aren't.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Those fiber wrapped jobs are outstanding when it comes to having a lightweight rifle to carry. They suck after a few shots and heating up as they tend to wander like a lost dog. Tradeoffs. Accept that you need to fire every group from a stone-cold barrel. If that isn't good enough - tell your 'smith to put a solid steel tube on it. Because that is just how those tubes react to heat. As hunting rifle barrels - shooting good groups was not the primary focus when they were made. I have done a lot of load development on a few of the Proof Research barrels and they were all the same. They shot acceptable groups with the right load - but after five shots you have to wrap the barrel with a wet towel. If you found your great group when the barrel was at all warm - it would prove to shoot different - if not elsewhere after cooling. Really - they are just like shooting the little pencil-barreled ultra-light rifles. There is nothing your gunsmith can do to fix that wandering short of replacing with a good solid steel tube.

Not disclaiming your results and experiences, but I would have to disagree based on my own limited experience. I have only used one Proof CF barrel, so I'm not an expert with CF barrels by any means, but wandering shots have never been an issue for me at any point in the testing I've conducted so far.

My barrel is chambered in 300 Norma Improved so I'm burning a large amount of powder (90+/- grains) with each round behind 215gr Berger bullets. My barrel heats up like any other barrel would after firing a few groups with a large magnum, but it doesn't walk on target. I will always let the barrel cool between groups when load testing, but by no means has it cooled all the way down. Still usually warm to the touch when the next group heads down range.

Groups have virtually no vertical to speak of and accuracy is hovering near 1/4 MOA at 500 yards.

 

[Sniper338]

Just a me thing... but when testing loads I like to let the barrel cool/rest between rounds. Im not a BR guy, slow fire is my game

 

[distantfoe]

Those fiber wrapped jobs are outstanding when it comes to having a lightweight rifle to carry. They suck after a few shots and heating up as they tend to wander like a lost dog. Tradeoffs. Accept that you need to fire every group from a stone-cold barrel. If that isn't good enough - tell your 'smith to put a solid steel tube on it. Because that is just how those tubes react to heat. As hunting rifle barrels - shooting good groups was not the primary focus when they were made. I have done a lot of load development on a few of the Proof Research barrels and they were all the same. They shot acceptable groups with the right load - but after five shots you have to wrap the barrel with a wet towel. If you found your great group when the barrel was at all warm - it would prove to shoot different - if not elsewhere after cooling. Really - they are just like shooting the little pencil-barreled ultra-light rifles. There is nothing your gunsmith can do to fix that wandering short of replacing with a good solid steel tube. And don't get a fluted barrel unless it was at least drilled and rifled after the fluting was done - which a lot aren't.

From my experience working up 7-8 Proofs in large calibers this is spot on. Depending on the ambient temperature I’ve had to wait 10+ minutes between shots to see any kind of consistency. They’ll shoot but gotta baby them. If rushed they’ll put 2 through the same hole and then throw 1 way out.

 

[Vandy321]

Scope question....went back out today with my 215 load. Parralax set crisp at 150...shooting 100 yards. Scope is going blurry after every shot now, have to run the parralax down or up and back to get crisp again back at 150. Checked torque on entire rifle again, its solid. Also, parralax wont change at all past about the 300 yard setting

Does something loose or broken in the occular sounds like the issue with vertical? Cold bore today, 12 mins between single shots, again 4" of vertical in what was a proven .5moa load.

Going to miss a hunt next week if Schmidt cant turn it fast for a extra fee.

Thoughts? Scope broken?

 

[L.Sherm]

Sounds like to me you got a scope problem.

 

[Vandy321]

Well sh*t...nothing like wasting 200+ rounds of bergers and another 50 eld-m's, posting numerous threads asking folks to help figure out why you cant develop a load to save your life.

Scope went back to S&B...parrallax adjustment came lose from the focus knob...and erector was off...

I've wasted alot of folks time and energy, apologies. Hopefully some meaningful groups and more typical results to come!!

 

[L.Sherm]

That sucks, I have seen the same thing though.

 

[searcher]

Most of us have been there, for sure. Those barrels will shoot - but you have to take on a new level of patience when it seems all you do is wait for that freaking barrel to cool. I always got about half way through what I wanted to try and the wind would come up. If you haven't gotten under 1 M.O.A. with those bullets, I'd change powders now. That was one thing I noticed unique to those barrels and that they were much more powder particular - both in good ways and bad. Reminded me of load development with lead-free bullets. Either loved or hated. While getting the 1/2" groups I sought for each of them didn't come quickly - it was mostly because I didn't change powders as quickly as I should have. The good thing is that those barrels should eventually get you there. If I were you - and this being a big-game rifle, I'd consider stopping if I hit 1/2". None of the barrels I worked with would do much better than that - certainly not good enough to warrant the extra round count I put on them to get to where I did. While those barrels don't feel all that hot on the exterior, they actually get hotter inside than a solid steel barrel. That contributes to faster throat erosion. I was working with rifles that didn't belong to me and I didn't want to hand rifles back that were toasted out.