What is the purpose of the Pressure Ring?

[BoydAllen]

In the past I have used the Sinclair setup that has a rod and collars, with firm thumb pressure on the rod. I know that this is probably giving me a reading that is minutely longer than first touch, but it has worked well over the years, for a variety of calibers. I also have the Stoney Point (later Hornady) too and cases for it in a couple of calibers. For that I measure the "headspace of the tapped case, and that of a deprimed fired case, and add the difference to my measurement to correct for the difference. With a couple of thousandths difference between sized neck diameter and loaded neck diameter, I have never had a problem with pulling bullets. I think that if you do some experimenting, and take your time, you will see that the resulting marks are short. If one were just going by marks, I would say that they would be slight but definite, much shorter than wide. Of course when you change from jumping to seating into the lands, you should drop back on charge and do a new load workup. As I have written many times, I do this sort of thing at the range, which speeds the process greatly.

 

[artbosco]

But it brought to my feeble mind the question... What purpose does the pressure ring serve?

Call Bart Sauter [just inducted into the BR Hall of Fame] at 270-879-4279 [ http://www.bartsbullets.com/products/barts.html ] and Ronnie Cheek at 325-698-1318 [ http://rcheek.com/page2.shtml ] both bullet makers extraordinaire, and both who make bullets with pressure rings.

Their bullets are winning matches all over the country. Take your question directly to a bullet making source if you want a technical/serious reply.

 

[Gappmast]

A "pressure ring" is due to a mass produced bullet manufacturing processes. It could be considered a flaw, or a marketing gimmick depending on your perspective. A properly made custom bullet will not have one. That said, I can't tell the difference with small pressure rings. I do know they serve no purpose for accuracy.

I would say Bob is right. It depends on how well the die is made. Just like primer cratering, the more clearance between the firing pin and the bolt the more cratering you will get.

 

[BoydAllen]

Every single custom FB bullet that I have seen or heard about in .22 and 6mm has had a pressure ring. None of the factory bullets have, so I would have to say that that piece of information is incorrect. They are a result of the process, but are in no way considered to be a flaw, but rather part of the normal shape of custom FB bullets.

 

[243winxb]

Every single custom FB bullet that I have seen or heard about in .22 and 6mm has had a pressure ring. None of the factory bullets have, so I would have to say that that piece of information is incorrect. They are a result of the process, but are in no way considered to be a flaw, but rather part of the normal shape of custom FB bullets.

+1 The OP just needs to use a smaller bushing to solve the neck tension problem.

 

[GSPV]

For the seating depth thing, I don't think the norm for the term "full jam" is when the rifling marks are square. It is as far as the bullet will go in before being pushed back into the case. It is dependent on neck tension, though. The people that I know that say 20 thou off jam mean 20 thou off full jam and they mean with 3 or 4 thou neck tension.

I approach seating depth from the other direction. Relative to just touching the lands. From that direction, I'd expect a 223 to shoot well a few thou into the lands.

If this is a mag fed varmint rifle, our normal BR seating depth ideas might be overcome by what will work in the magazine.

 

[BoydAllen]

For one of my varmint rifles (a .222), that had a magazine that was too short for loaded rounds made up with plastic tipped bullets seated slightly into the rifling, we modified the magazine block and bolt stop and now the feed just fine.

 

[Joe Maisto]

But it brought to my feeble mind the question... What purpose does the pressure ring serve?

Call Bart Sauter [just inducted into the BR Hall of Fame] at 270-879-4279 [ http://www.bartsbullets.com/products/barts.html ] and Ronnie Cheek at 325-698-1318 [ http://rcheek.com/page2.shtml ] both bullet makers extraordinaire, and both who make bullets with pressure rings.

Their bullets are winning matches all over the country. Take your question directly to a bullet making source if you want a technical/serious reply.

Judging from the above , one would get the idea the only bullets being used are the ones you mentioned.
While those bullets may be winning some matches, you should underrstand that many other individual bullet makers are also winning matches "all over the country." Furthermore, many of us BR shooters will only use bullets made by ONE person, not a series of people pumping out hundreds of thousands of them, It's called too many fingers in the pie. Before those boys came along, And possibly before your time, we had some of the finest bullet makers anywhere with names such as:
Jef Fowler, Don Gentner, Ed Watson, And lets not forget Mr. Brady knight , just to name a few.

In the eastern region, most use Hottensteins bullets, because they win more matches than anyone elses. Those are the bullets the HOF shoters use in the Eastern region.

In the sign up sheet for registration prior to a match, this is what you will see being used. I use bullets made by one (1) man in Canada. We shoot together and I can tell you they will certainly be all precisely the same.

This is not to say the bullet makers you mentioned do not make decent bullets, but this is to say there are many others that make good, if not great bullets.

 

[LHSmith]

A "pressure ring" is due to a mass produced bullet manufacturing processes. It could be considered a flaw, or a marketing gimmick depending on your perspective. A properly made custom bullet will not have one. That said, I can't tell the difference with small pressure rings. I do know they serve no purpose for accuracy.

I would say Bob is right. It depends on how well the die is made. Just like primer cratering, the more clearance between the firing pin and the bolt the more cratering you will get.

I hope Allie Euber, Bart S., Ronnie C., Randy R. and a host of other FB bulletsmiths won't be too upset to find out that their poorly made sloppy fit dies still produce the most accurate bullets on the planet.
Then there is Berger with their Column bullets, they produce them also on sloppy dies since they also have a pressure ring. We have been duped all these years. :

 

[artbosco]

But it brought to my feeble mind the question... What purpose does the pressure ring serve?

Call Bart Sauter [just inducted into the BR Hall of Fame] at 270-879-4279 [ http://www.bartsbullets.com/products/barts.html ] and Ronnie Cheek at 325-698-1318 [ http://rcheek.com/page2.shtml ] both bullet makers extraordinaire, and both who make bullets with pressure rings.

Their bullets are winning matches all over the country. Take your question directly to a bullet making source if you want a technical/serious reply.

Judging from the above , one would get the idea the only bullets being used are the ones you mentioned.
While those bullets may be winning some matches, you should understand that many other individual bullet makers are also winning matches "all over the country." Furthermore, many of us BR shooters will only use bullets made by ONE person, not a series of people pumping out hundreds of thousands of them, It's called too many fingers in the pie. Before those boys came along, And possibly before your time, we had some of the finest bullet makers anywhere with names such as:
Jef Fowler, Don Gentner, Ed Watson, And lets not forget Mr. Brady knight , just to name a few.

In the eastern region, most use Hottensteins bullets, because they win more matches than anyone elses. Those are the bullets the HOF shoters use in the Eastern region.

In the sign up sheet for registration prior to a match, this is what you will see being used. I use bullets made by one (1) man in Canada. We shoot together and I can tell you they will certainly be all precisely the same.

This is not to say the bullet makers you mentioned do not make decent bullets, but this is to say there are many others that make good, if not great bullets.

You missed my point entirely which was: Take your question directly to a bullet making source [any source] if you want a technical/serious reply.

 

[Ackman]

But it brought to my feeble mind the question... What purpose does the pressure ring serve?

Call Bart Sauter [just inducted into the BR Hall of Fame] at 270-879-4279 [ http://www.bartsbullets.com/products/barts.html ] and Ronnie Cheek at 325-698-1318 [ http://rcheek.com/page2.shtml ] both bullet makers extraordinaire, and both who make bullets with pressure rings.

Their bullets are winning matches all over the country. Take your question directly to a bullet making source if you want a technical/serious reply.

Judging from the above , one would get the idea the only bullets being used are the ones you mentioned.

Judging from the above, I didn't get that idea at all. Where did he even imply those are the only bullets being used? The idea I get.....is that outdoorsman mentioned two guys whom gilream could call and get himself straightened out. Maybe he should've listed every bullet maker in the whole country? So someone like you wouldn't get all picky?

 

[gilream]

Range Results…

Boyd, I took my test loads to the range yesterday to fire 3 shot groups with the Sierra 53 gr. FB match bullets Seated -.020 from my “square mark jam”. This depth was determined by seating bullets .040 longer than indicated by the Stoney Point (L&L) OAL gauge then seating the bullet by closing the bolt on the rifle. At this seating depth I have no bullet movement either chambering or removing a chambered round and I am not concerned about accidentally pulling a bullet . Very slight but definite rifling marks do appear on the bullet. After a couple of fouling shots, the 3rd and 4th test groups measured .279 and .280 respectively both impacted at the same horizontal point on the target. First shot of the next group, 27.0 grains H335 was high right, with noticeably more recoil and a flattened primer. I fired one more and got another flat primer and stopped. A week ago at the farm as I was doing barrel break in, I did not get the flat primer until I reached 27.6 grains. That day it was 65 degrees, no humidity …yesterday it was 84 degrees and muggy so I guess temperature does make a difference!

The rifle is a Cooper Model 21, single shot (no magazine), Lapua once fired brass, not neck turned and weight sorted, H335, Rem. 7 1/2 primer. 18 power scope with parallax adjustment.

I measured about 10 of the Sierra bullets and could not detect a pressure ring.

I used a Redding Body Die for shoulder bump then the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die with a modified mandrel for a neck tension of .0022 - .0024 (same as my jam test).

Needless to say …I’m happy with the results and thankful for this forum.

Oh and I really like Erik Cortina’s load development target too. Thanks Eric

5 shot groups are the next order of business I suppose. Would you pick a powder charge between these two then work seating depth OR just load 5 shot groups with both and pick the best? The load will be used to punch paper at 100 and 200 yds mostly and for groundhogs. Thx

Mike

 

[BoydAllen]

Mike,
Thanks for the report, and congratulations on your results. If your groups are wider than tall, it may be that the wind is respinsible, and that your load and rifle have the potential to shoot even smaller, not that they need to. Are you shooting over any sort of wind flag? Also, what is your trigger pull weight? Again, congratulations. You seem to have all of your ducks pretty well aligned.
Boyd

 

[gilream]

Mike,
Thanks for the report, and congratulations on your results. If your groups are wider than tall, it may be that the wind is respinsible, and that your load and rifle have the potential to shoot even smaller, not that they need to. Are you shooting over any sort of wind flag? Also, what is your trigger pull weight? Again, congratulations. You seem to have all of your ducks pretty well aligned.
Boyd

Boyd, Yesterday I shot at a 100 meter indoor range so any wind present was not much and from me directly toward the target (exhaust system). Last week at the farm I shot over wind flags during barrel break in.

I suspect that my depth is similar to your .222 description because of the small but definite rifling maks.

The first good group (26.4 gr.) was a tight little clover leaf, the next (26.7) was two in one hole just a bit higher and right of the other shot. Trigger pull is factory set at 1 1/2 pounds per my instruction when I ordered. It's a handsome rifle to my eye as well. As always..thanks
Mike

 

[BoydAllen]

Indoor range...pretty fancy....sounds lie the first load was good and the hotter one was a little above the node.

 

[gilream]

Not sure if this upload will be of very good quality but here goes.

Boyd, here is the target from yesterday.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Not sure if this upload will be of very good quality but here goes.

Boyd, here is the target from yesterday.

Looks like I would play around between 26.4 and 26.7 gr.

P.S. You are posting this on the wrong thread.

 

[artbosco]

What purpose does the pressure ring serve?

None.

It would best be call the Residuum Ring.

Meaning it's a residual product of the bullet swaging process [The process of forming projectiles (bullets) using high pressure, instead of heat, to flow the materials at room temperature, within a closed high-strength die].

 

[Bob Sebold]

Sorry it took so long to reply, haven't been on the site in a while and you guys are probably out of popcorn! It is my understanding as production dies get used a lot they wear or loosen up some. This is where the pressure ring comes from, assuming they are made to tight tolerances in the first place. Custom bullet makers generally make so few bullets as compared to big production companies, that the dies are in much better shape. I do not know at what point a pressure ring would start affecting accuracy, but it does not add anything to it. If it added much I doubt Eric Stecher at Berger-Not sure I got his name spelled correctly- would not replace dies as they wore. He does all the time! Must be for a reason. Otherwise I think if it helped accuracy all bullets would be "ribbed for your pleasure".

 

[BoydAllen]

Bob,
With all respect, I think that you should call a few custom bullet makers, who use the best dies obtainable, I think that you will find that all of their FB bullets have pressure rings, and that they had them from the first bullet that was made when the dies were new. In short, with respect, I am pretty sure that there is nothing in your answer that is correct.
Boyd