What is it about the .308 that makes it the best cartridge for any type of competition shooting?

[Depart123]

No other cartridge exhibits the "balance" that the 308 has. It uses enough powder and bullet to get the job done, whether that is downing an elk or a hadji, or poking small groups at 600+ yards.

It is one of the easiest and least finicky cartridges to load for. There are about a gazillion powders that work well in it.

Brass is literally everywhere. Even cheap military brass can be made to shoot well, and it lasts for 10+ reloads.

Barrels last forever. Once you find a good load, you can probably forget about doing load developement again for at least 5,000 rounds.

There are a corresponding gazillion bullets that work well in the .308.

Recoil is mild enough that kids can shoot it and not be punished with recoil, so they keep shooting.

It fits in rifles of a handy length and weight, and due to it's shoulder design, feeds like butter from either a box magazine or an internal magazine.

What's not to love about the .308?

 

[Terry]

No other cartridge exhibits the "balance" that the 308 has. It uses enough powder and bullet to get the job done, whether that is downing an elk or a hadji, or poking small groups at 600+ yards.

It is one of the easiest and least finicky cartridges to load for. There are about a gazillion powders that work well in it.

Brass is literally everywhere. Even cheap military brass can be made to shoot well, and it lasts for 10+ reloads.

Barrels last forever. Once you find a good load, you can probably forget about doing load developement again for at least 5,000 rounds.

There are a corresponding gazillion bullets that work well in the .308.

Recoil is mild enough that kids can shoot it and not be punished with recoil, so they keep shooting.

It fits in rifles of a handy length and weight, and due to it's shoulder design, feeds like butter from either a box magazine or an internal magazine.

What's not to love about the .308?

I'm calling BS on the low recoil, kids shooting.

 

[Erud]

I've had a few 6x47L, 2x 7mm08AI (which I love) and several 308s. One thing I've found is the 308 just works. Period. Feed it good bullets, powder and she just works. Sure it aint the best but when you look at the scores top F/TR guys are shooting compared to FO. Do you really think its that bad. Especially with the bullets that are available now. Yeah shes got more recoil then a 6.5mm but its reliable and its accurate. 308 Win just works.

Now that's a great point. I was out at the range just yesterday to do some "load development" with a brand new .308 barrel. The first step was to try some of the Sierra 2156's I had loaded for the other barrel I've been shooting this year. Starting with zero rounds on the barrel, it took 3 shots to find the target, then a few sighters to get it dialed into the middle:

I took about a 15 minute break after that, then shot a few more of that load:

After a half hour or so of standing around and BS'ing with friends, I decided to try the other load I shoot in the other barrel; same components and powder charge, just with Berger 155 Hybrids instead. Those shot a full 1 MOA flatter, so another couple sighters to get it back in the middle, then off to the races:

Load development = done.

 

[DR1586]

I'm calling BS on the low recoil, kids shooting.

With all due respect I’m calling BS on the BS Call. There are scores of Jr’s shooting F-TR and managing the recoil. There have been thousands of Jr’s that have shot M1A’s for years in XTC. There have been youngsters shooting Palma rifles for a while too. Never once have I seen a shooter missing an arm or severely disabled because of the recoil from a 308. They are not punishing and kids can, do, and will continue to shoot them.

 

[dcali]

Depends on what you mean by kid, and how heavy the rifle is. When I was a young kid, I thought a .308 was immensely powerful (and was still smart enough to know it was the greatest of all time) when I shot a hunting rifle. These days, I hardly notice it.

 

[Terry]

With all due respect I’m calling BS on the BS Call. There are scores of Jr’s shooting F-TR and managing the recoil. There have been thousands of Jr’s that have shot M1A’s for years in XTC. There have been youngsters shooting Palma rifles for a while too. Never once have I seen a shooter missing an arm or severely disabled because of the recoil from a 308. They are not punishing and kids can, do, and will continue to shoot them.

It's simply a different point of view. Mine were 5 lb. Hunting rifles not a 20+ pound f-class gun. Your heavier guns may be fine.

 

[terryperkins]

It's simply a different point of view. Mine were 5 lb. Hunting rifles not a 20+ pound f-class gun. Your heavier guns may be fine.

My granddaughter started on a 308 when she was 14. In the spring she practised with a FTR rifle (heavy enough) for competitions. In September she moved to a BLR in 308 (light enough) for deer hunting. She quickly learned to not be concerned about recoil, just the basics of rifle shooting.

 

[Nature Boy]

With all due respect I’m calling BS on the BS Call.

I’ve lost track now of which BS to call BS to so I’ll say this.

Took the kids to the range yesterday and set my 18 year old daughter up at 500 yards and let her bang away with the .308

This was her first time to shoot it, and still, all 5’-1”, 100 ponds of her managed to shoot a 20 round group into a 6.5”

The 4 that landed outside the 10 were her first 4 shots.

Now she’s wanting to shoot it in an F-TR match.

So add this to the list: Teaching your kids to shoot a .308 is a sign of good parenting and kids who shoot a .308 are more likey to succeed in life compared to the wayward youth who might shoot, oh, lets say a 6.5 for example.

It’s settle science people.

BTW, my daughter is off to college at the end of the summer. Scholarship, playing soccer, studying biology, pre-med track.

Case closed

 

[Depart123]

I should add to my post above that the 308 can easily and safely be down loaded to the level of much smaller cartridges like the 7.62x39 and 30-30 winchester. There are a multitude of printed recipes for doing just that, once again a testament to it's versatility.

There are even "cat's sneeze" loads using small charges of pistol powder that launch .310 lead round balls at 22LR velocities....and it will STILL drive tacks at the appropriate distances. I have actually hunted rabbits and squirrels with these loads.

There is virtually no aspect of loading for the .308 that hasn't been explored in depth and put to print for all of us to benefit from. Show me another round that can literally go from squirrel hunting to the 1000yd line.

 

[mgunderson]

Being able to shoot on the Palma Alliance.

 

[Erud]

Being able to shoot on the Palma Alliance.

Nailed it.

 

[alinwa]

There is virtually no aspect of loading for the .308 that hasn't been explored in depth and put to print for all of us to benefit from.

THIS is most certainly true

 

[Pablo]

Recoil tolerance is a personal thing. I know a few guys that shoot short range BR that don't like the recoil of a 6ppc they shoot 22Waldog's. Spent several years shooting the 308 in both Hunter Rifle Class and some Large Bore comps with a position rifle, this was in the late 70's. I learned to loathe shooting the 308 but will acknowledge the inherent accuracy of the round and the ease of load development for them. The real trouble with the round is to get a bullet with a good BC they have to weigh over 200 grains which it can't possibly shoot flat. When you go down in bore diameter bullets that fly better are available in weights that a smaller cartridge can run at speeds close to 3k fps. Practically speaking these are a better mousetrap that remove recoil from the experience.

 

[ImBIllT]

I'm calling BS on the low recoil, kids shooting.

A 125gr doesn’t recoil any more from a .308 than from a .260, and the difference between it and a 115gr from a .243 Win is negligible. Yes a .308 shooting 210 Hybrids is going to recoil a bit, but some 125 hunting bullets make it reasonably mild.

 

[Pablo]

A 125gr doesn’t recoil any more from a .308 than from a .260, and the difference between it and a 115gr from a .243 Win is negligible. Yes a .308 shooting 210 Hybrids is going to recoil a bit, but some 125 hunting bullets make it reasonably mild.

True but that 125 grain 308 bullet will have the BC of a pistol bullet.

 

[eric32]

I guess it something about hitting a piece of steel with a 175 grains of BAM BAM that make it's magical. Kinda like a hot cup of joe on your front porch at sunrise. You guys have spent 6 pages trying to figure it out and you never will, its just there. you cant point a finger at it, hold it, see it. Only can you feel at the butt end of a 308win. I don't try to understand it, I can only accept it.

308 Winchester rules and the rest drool. hahaha

 

[Erud]

Recoil tolerance is a personal thing. I know a few guys that shoot short range BR that don't like the recoil of a 6ppc they shoot 22Waldog's. Spent several years shooting the 308 in both Hunter Rifle Class and some Large Bore comps with a position rifle, this was in the late 70's. I learned to loathe shooting the 308 but will acknowledge the inherent accuracy of the round and the ease of load development for them. The real trouble with the round is to get a bullet with a good BC they have to weigh over 200 grains which it can't possibly shoot flat. When you go down in bore diameter bullets that fly better are available in weights that a smaller cartridge can run at speeds close to 3k fps. Practically speaking these are a better mousetrap that remove recoil from the experience.

I'm not sure I understand this post. You are talking about recoil like it's a bad thing?

 

[ImBIllT]

True but that 125 grain 308 bullet will have the BC of a pistol bullet.

What does that have to do with youth handling recoil?

 

[Pablo]

I'm not sure I understand this post. You are talking about recoil like it's a bad thing?

What does that have to do with youth handling recoil?

Erud, it's a known fact that recoil is the enemy of accuracy. Most kids don't mind getting kicked at something like 8ft lbs, more than that often times leads to bad habits.

ImBllT, the point of my statement is that you can have low recoil and good flying bullets, check out any of the 6BR's and it's variants performance with a 105 grain bullet. Low recoil, good accuracy and easy to shoot and tune, heck look at a 140 6.5's performance out of a 260 or similar cartridge vs a 308 at say 800 yards, then do the math on how much the two cartridges kicked. There's the answer.

 

[ImBIllT]

Erud, it's a known fact that recoil is the enemy of accuracy. Most kids don't mind getting kicked at something like 8ft lbs, more than that often times leads to bad habits.

ImBllT, the point of my statement is that you can have low recoil and good flying bullets, check out any of the 6BR's and it's variants performance with a 105 grain bullet. Low recoil, good accuracy and easy to shoot and tune, heck look at a 140 6.5's performance out of a 260 or similar cartridge vs a 308 at say 800 yards, then do the math on how much the two cartridges kicked. There's the answer.

My first post in this thread quoted a guy who was “calling BS” on youth being able to handle the recoil of a .308 Win. Not one iota of anything I said was related to ballistics. I merely pointed out that a .308 did not automatically equal high recoil. There are many factors that go into cartridge selection. What is the primary purpose of the gun? Will it serve more than one purpose? Can you afford to buy another sometime down the road? Do you already have reloading equipment and components for another firearm in the same cartridge? If many factors point toward purchasing a .308 Win for a youth, recoil does not have to be he determining factor against it. You can easily download it for a few years and the kid will still have a gun he can elk hunt with for the rest of his life. Obviously there are better cartridge choices for almost any purpose.