What happened to the new Backcountry cartridges

[Bottom Fodder]

Well new shooters could just go straight to the ultimate do all Creedmore

 

[precision1]

What a joke!… I must have accidentally logged on to snipers hide!…
Wayne

What's a joke?I guess one of y'all hurt his feelings.well damn

 

[precision1]

Yeah the whole cartridge is a joke.

 

[precision1]

I

No one hurt my feelings ever non donating new member!…. I just think the whole thing is a joke!…. This is an accurate….. “Accurate”
Shooting forum not facebook or snipers hide!…

How about for know own you say how you feel about subject and don't act like every single person in thread made you mad or be more specific.just sounds like a Karen blurting out stuff

No problem for me I don't sweat anything
Just the way the world is nowadays.

Chill it's okay

Sorry I don't think anyone understands your post

 

[SteveOak]

this also brings up an interesting point of does a 40 deg shoulder increase bolt thrust over a 20 deg shoulder?

Chamber pressure causes bolt thrust. That can be accomplished by increasing the powder charge or changing to a faster powder or heavier bullet. For the purposes of your assertion regarding bolt thrust, no.

 

[wildcatter]

I am not sure why all the vitriol, but I feel compelled to respond as it seems this was directed at me. Also, I highlighted part of your comments in bold because I feel the need to point out that your post is very light on facts and very heavy on opinion and conjecture. However, I will strive to answer your post as factually as I can.

First, "cheap factory ammo" isn't what is keeping the Creedmoors alive. The cheapest offering from Hornady is the American Whitetail stuff that is still $1.50 a round, but the most popular offering from them is about $2.00 a round. That is pretty comparable to the .308 offerings. Also, in the world of supply and demand, a healthy demand drives a healthy supply. Fact #1. If the demand wasn't there, the prices would be higher as the various ammo companies wouldn't spend the money on components and tooling. Higher volume purchasing/manufacturing leads to lower prices. Fact #2.

As for the Creedmoor not doing anything better than an "already proven case", what it did was the following: Optimized the case design for a more efficient pressure curve. Fact #3. Got the SAAMI spec to use 1:8" twist barrels for use of heavier, better BC and SD bullets. Fact #4. What made that better than the .260 Remington, which already existed? Well, for one, the .260 specified a 1:9" twist barrel, so shooting anything over 140 grains was a crap shoot. So, if you wanted to shoot heavies you had to 1) rebarrel your gun and 2) use a non-standard mag box because otherwise you had to stuff those bullets into the case so that you could load them in the standard SA mag box which reduced the effectiveness pretty significantly. Also, Hornady also got gun manufacturers to support the round, which Remington never did. Heck, they barely supported it themselves. So, yes, it was better than the .260. Fact #5.
How about the 6.5X55? Well, unless you wanted to buy some expensive ammo loaded under CIP requirements, it was pretty nutered so people wouldn't blow up the old Swede Mausers that are still in circulation. Which meant that getting half-way decent proposal was a "reloading only" proposition. Just like in the example of the .260 that means doing something outside the norm. Also it was a long action cartridge, so the folks looking for a nice svelt hunting rifle weren't going to go LA. Fact #6.

I also understand that most of us that frequent this site are handloaders and have absolutely no problem putting together a custom firearm to get what we want. That is why I rebarreled my first .260 Rem to 260AI with a fast twist barrel about 8 years before the introduction of the 6.5 Creedmoor. That being said, we make up a pretty small portion of the shooting community at large. There is a giant population of gun owners who will never rebarrel a rifle or reload ammuntion. For them the Creedmoor does what the rest of us have been doing for a while through customization. If it doesn't need to be fiddled with or "improved", then it is "better than" in my opinion.

Finally, the final thing that the Creedmoor did, which we should all applaud is to make efficient cartridges and heavy-for-caliber bullets "mainstream". Again, those of use who like to experiement and are always on the hunt for "better" already knew this, but think back to 30 years ago, the number of bullet and barrel options that we had were pretty limited if you wanted to shoot heavies. Now, it is commonplace. The Creedmoor had a lot to do with that. Fact #7.

So, I return to my original point. Hate it all you want, but to discount what it is and what it did for the industry is a bit of cognitive dissidence. We should be embracing the things that bring new shooters into the fold and keep those that are already here. Our little community on this forum isn't going anywhere, but again, we are a pretty small sample of the whole population, and if we drive people out because we don't like what they use or how they use it, it won't be long before they start coming after our stuff too.

Not at all pointed at you, but I am allowed my opinion, and for me, it falls way to short of multiple options in every caliber it is chambered in.

But as the name implies, i like to have things my way, and yes it probably isnt how most feel. But if you or anyone else likes it, enjoy! But when 3 out of 4 maybe 5 people i know that shoot it, tells me, they thought about other calibers but ammo was harder to get,,, I'm sorry, but I'll stick with my original opinion.

I am sorry if I offendex you, not my internet, but I also am allowed an opinion. Enjoy, and shoot straight!

And yes as far as the BC, its a fad as far as I'm concerned, only time will prove that, but i will never depend on anything that is as proprietary as it is! Remington had a great electronic firing gimmick to that was all the rage for some, we see what happened with it. Sometimes the old wheel is rounder than some make it out to be!

 

[JoeInTucson]

I was at the NRA convention in April and I dropped by Federal’s booth. They ere pressing this round and they said RCBS was figuring out a die set for the steel cases.

 

[ISS]

I really believe most of the new boutique cartridges brought in the last 40 years are to sell new rifles. I really do. Loading a 21st century "Plus P" version of many of the old classics would accomplish the same thing in many cases. Look at the 257 Roberts and what +P has done for it.
A lot of the perceived improvements are a result of increased operating pressure. I suggest setting a 60,000 PSI ceiling and seeing what the new wunderkids actually do.

I am building a 300 NM for Christmas. Using the standard pressure reading signs, flattened primers and base increase; I am waiting to see how much MV it gives over my OM70 300 H&H. I hope the big number is due to increased case capacity.

 

[ISS]

That was the reason the old Steelheads failed.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Not at all pointed at you, but I am allowed my opinion, and for me, it falls way to short of multiple options in every caliber it is chambered in.

But as the name implies, i like to have things my way, and yes it probably isnt how most feel. But if you or anyone else likes it, enjoy! But when 3 out of 4 maybe 5 people i know that shoot it, tells me, they thought about other calibers but ammo was harder to get,,, I'm sorry, but I'll stick with my original opinion.

I am sorry if I offendex you, not my internet, but I also am allowed an opinion. Enjoy, and shoot straight!

And yes as far as the BC, its a fad as far as I'm concerned, only time will prove that, but i will never depend on anything that is as proprietary as it is! Remington had a great electronic firing gimmick to that was all the rage for some, we see what happened with it. Sometimes the old wheel is rounder than some make it out to be!

No offense taken at all.

I am a self-professed 7-08 lover. Have been since the 90s. There is nothing that the 6.5 Creedmoor can do that I also can't do with the 7-08 except deliver a 15% lower recoil impulse when shooting 140 grain bullets. However, this "fad" of heavy for caliber bullets that the Creedmoor has help usher in has opened up possibilities for me with that 7-08. To the point where I decided to build a 7-08AI and feed it 162 grain bullets. And now with the addition of .277 Fury brass, I can experiment and push those 162 grain bullets to 280 or 280AI speeds, in a short barrel and a short action. I could also just get a 280AI, but where is the fun in that? Like you, I love my wildcats. This "new era" has started opening up options to a lot of wildcatters that would have loved to do this same thing years ago, it just wasn't available or the few options that were available were not economical.
That is why I don't get too upset about new things coming out.

Just like for the question that started the thread. If the 7mm Backcountry does gain enough popularity to open up the market to delivering more cartridges based on this case technology and these cases really are reloadable, I think you will see some pretty amazing stuff out of some of the old faithful cartridges that people love.

 

[wildcatter]

No offense taken at all.

I am a self-professed 7-08 lover. Have been since the 90s. There is nothing that the 6.5 Creedmoor can do that I also can't do with the 7-08 except deliver a 15% lower recoil impulse when shooting 140 grain bullets. However, this "fad" of heavy for caliber bullets that the Creedmoor has help usher in has opened up possibilities for me with that 7-08. To the point where I decided to build a 7-08AI and feed it 162 grain bullets. And now with the addition of .277 Fury brass, I can experiment and push those 162 grain bullets to 280 or 280AI speeds, in a short barrel and a short action. I could also just get a 280AI, but where is the fun in that? Like you, I love my wildcats. This "new era" has started opening up options to a lot of wildcatters that would have loved to do this same thing years ago, it just wasn't available or the few options that were available were not economical.
That is why I don't get too upset about new things coming out.

Just like for the question that started the thread. If the 7mm Backcountry does gain enough popularity to open up the market to delivering more cartridges based on this case technology and these cases really are reloadable, I think you will see some pretty amazing stuff out of some of the old faithful cartridges that people love.

I have to say to most that have been wildcatting cartridges for decades, this new era has only opened the door for those that never understood wildcats before. Most iot confused more than it helped!

That is because today most consider what they read about experience. been there done that, is the onlt way to know. I'm interested in your 7mm08 AI. I've tried 308 and 30-06 and seen the smallest gains of any cartridge I have Ackley Improved! The biggest gains have been with the 7mm Mauser, and 257 Roberts, both on the same parent cartridge, it just like no taper and sharp shoulders, and shows it. But a lot of that is because the load manuals show it as a limp di(% cartridge loading it to ancient pressures far below what any modern cartridge is capable of. The 30-06 really surprised me to so little, if any gain. I'm thinking the modern 7mm 08 with it;s higher pressure loads already, if there is enough to call it a gain. Plus with a 1-9 factory twist for most since it was introduced I owned the first rifle ever made, the 788 18.5" barrel. the second or third year Remington offered it in the 700 and I had one in VS, both very accurate and both with a 1-9 or 9,5 twist, thats many decades ago and without looking don't remember exactly. But it was always since commercial introduction capable of 175 grain bullets and quite accurate with them.

I am not in any way a fanboy of any twist over 1-10. 110 to 120 is where any 25 caliber cartridge maxes out for hunting long range! ^mm it's 100 grains, and 30 caliber 200 grain to 220. Ging heavier in any of these is going backwords unless all your doing is punching paper or slamming steel. The heavier bullets can't be driven fast enough to hold enough velocity for the bullets do anything on animals over 500 or 600 yards that the lighter , heavy bullets will do at those yardages. I been there tried that, and shooting steel and paper is not hunting, and no bullet is optimum for both!

But this what I say by confusion, forums and paper aint been there done that! I won't ever make that mistake again, confusing target loads and ammo, with hunting loads and ammo, two very different platforms.

 

[Varminterror]

Our industry has been incrementally increasing maximum operating pressure for over 100 years, really over hundreds of years. This involved requiring improved metallurgy and design at multiple increments. Yes, the steel cases and steel case head, hybrid cases are the first time in a century in which we have changed the cartridge composition, but this simply recognizes the next evolution of pressure standard. We increased pressure from the 45-70 era of cartridges to the 30-30 to the 30-40 Krag and 30-03, to the 30-06, then the 308 and 300mags… this saw a TRIPLING of the maximum operating pressure. Increasing the industry standard from 60-65kpsi to 80kpsi is a simple ~20-25% increase, another incremental step forward in performance.

If any of us are shooting any cartridge operating at greater than ~10kpsi BP loads, we’re taking advantage of the exact same philosophy as the Backcountry/Fury are following.

 

[450BM]

I really believe most of the new boutique cartridges brought in the last 40 years are to sell new rifles. I really do. Loading a 21st century "Plus P" version of many of the old classics would accomplish the same thing in many cases. Look at the 257 Roberts and what +P has done for it.
A lot of the perceived improvements are a result of increased operating pressure. I suggest setting a 60,000 PSI ceiling and seeing what the new wunderkids actually do.

I am building a 300 NM for Christmas. Using the standard pressure reading signs, flattened primers and base increase; I am waiting to see how much MV it gives over my OM70 300 H&H. I hope the big number is due to increased case capacity.

Of course they are but can you blame them? The gun companies are in the business to sell guns and making new stuff is going to pique someone’s interest.

25 years ago my FIL died. Not just my FIL but my best friend and shooting buddy. I was devastated. My wife had a miscarriage about 3 weeks after her Dad died and he never knew she was pregnant because she found out while he was in a coma. So more devastation. After I gave him a 21 gun salute I put my guns away and didn’t touch them for 2+ years. I had been shooting since I was 5 and a reloader at 12 but I just didn’t want to do it anymore.

And then Winchester came out with the short magnums…. I took notice, started reading about them and eventually bought a Browning ABolt in 300 WSM. It got me shooting again. Not sure how long it might have been before I started shooting again if not for the short magnums (and I don’t even like heavy kicking guns!)

I guess that was a good thing…. Sure has cost me a lot of money though!

The only downside I see to new cartridges is that it may make some of our old cases harder to find because they are too busy making the new stuff. Other than that, I think they’re all good…

 

[ISS]

They do not even always keep their new chamberings brass and ammunition available. Bought any Remington's RUM brass lately?

The issue I have with the new stuff is that they discontinue the rifles before the brass/ammo.

 

[CJ6]

Look how long the 30 RAR or 30 TC lasted.

 

[wildcatter]

They do not even always keep their new chamberings brass and ammunition available. Bought any Remington's RUM brass lately?

The issue I have with the new stuff is that they discontinue the rifles before the brass/ammo.

Marketing, it's not about what is better, it's about what they think they get shooters to buy, when it ain't a home run,,, the inning is short lived. Plus as soon as the run slows, the game is over and they think of another offer for some other greatest ever,,,,

All about the money, with little to do with real improvement or real practical gains.

 

[AndyA]

Took the 7mmBC out to the range and the 170gr. Terminal Ascent ran 3028 fps out of my 18" barrel according to the Magnetospeed. It was 82 deg out so that maybe added but WOW! Accuracy at 300yd seemed too good for a strong L to R crosswind. Not posting that until I confirm with a second trip. The muzzle brake sure helped but it was LOUD. I ran both ear plugs and muffs but the concussion was something else.

One of the pluses for me I am finding out is "I can't reload for it". I reload everything so this is a welcome break.

 

[Varminterror]

One of the pluses for me I am finding out is "I can't reload for it". I reload everything so this is a welcome break.

That excuse won't survive very long, however. Folks are already reloading these, and already forming cases to make other +P loadings of other cartridges.

 

[cowboybart]

I was under the impression that "special" dies were required. In my mind SPECIAL means expensive and a learning curve in making them. Not sure $400-$500 dies will move me to that cartridge.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Took the 7mmBC out to the range and the 170gr. Terminal Ascent ran 3028 fps out of my 18" barrel according to the Magnetospeed. It was 82 deg out so that maybe added but WOW! Accuracy at 300yd seemed too good for a strong L to R crosswind. Not posting that until I confirm with a second trip. The muzzle brake sure helped but it was LOUD. I ran both ear plugs and muffs but the concussion was something else.

One of the pluses for me I am finding out is "I can't reload for it". I reload everything so this is a welcome break.

Sounds like you need a suppressor.