what happend ?

[misser]

here i am loading some 223, bolt gun. i checked to sure that i had the die set correctly . i sized a case and slipped the brass into the chamber , needed just a bit more force on the bolt handle than it should take . then adjusted the die for perfect fit . removed and measured the brass at the shoulder and slipped it into an AR carefully closing .worked as it should . removed the brass, remeasured it, its was the same . put it back into chamber and did a free drop of the bcg as hard as it would go . removed the brass and it had shortened .007 ......i'm confused

 

[Homerange]

This is why some of us much prefer cam over presses, for sizing uniformity.

 

[bozo699]

here i am loading some 223, bolt gun. i checked to sure that i had the die set correctly . i sized a case and slipped the brass into the chamber , needed just a bit more force on the bolt handle than it should take . then adjusted the die for perfect fit . removed and measured the brass at the shoulder and slipped it into an AR carefully closing .worked as it should . removed the brass, remeasured it, its was the same . put it back into chamber and did a free drop of the bcg as hard as it would go . removed the brass and it had shortened .007 ......i'm confused

I’m confused, your loading for a bolt gun, then a ar then you drop a bcg??? As hard as it would go? What’s a bcg?….. why not strip the bolt, load for that gun then set head space for machine gun and load for it?
Wayne

 

[mgunderson]

Bcg slamming forward is sizing the brass. Not uncommon. 0.007 seems like a little much, bit let's roll with it. Did you use the same reamer on both barrels?

 

[dellet]

What happened?

You learned why it's not a good idea to load a cartridge in an AR with a bullet seated less than .010” off the lands and why shooting someone else’s handloads can be dangerous.

 

[hoz53]

here i am loading some 223, bolt gun. i checked to sure that i had the die set correctly . i sized a case and slipped the brass into the chamber , needed just a bit more force on the bolt handle than it should take . then adjusted the die for perfect fit . removed and measured the brass at the shoulder and slipped it into an AR carefully closing .worked as it should . removed the brass, remeasured it, its was the same . put it back into chamber and did a free drop of the bcg as hard as it would go . removed the brass and it had shortened .007 ......i'm confused

i dont know why youd be confused- what i wanna know is why were you using both an AR and bolt gun to size your brass??

 

[K22]

here i am loading some 223, bolt gun. i checked to sure that i had the die set correctly . i sized a case and slipped the brass into the chamber , needed just a bit more force on the bolt handle than it should take . then adjusted the die for perfect fit . removed and measured the brass at the shoulder and slipped it into an AR carefully closing .worked as it should . removed the brass, remeasured it, its was the same . put it back into chamber and did a free drop of the bcg as hard as it would go . removed the brass and it had shortened .007 ......i'm confused

With due respect, this doesn't make any sense to me but am old and the brain doesn't work like it used to.

What's the deal with the "bolt rifle" and "AR"?

 

[misser]

just for fun i then used a factory loaded round . the AR set it back .003

 

[misser]

i dont know why youd be confused- what i wanna know is why were you using both an AR and bolt gun to size your brass??

i am sizing brass to the bolt gun . the trying it in AR was to find if the same sizing of the brass was going to work in the AR. then try'ed a factory loaded one ,the AR set it back .003

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

There is some clearance between the bolt and the bbl. With a piece of brass in the chamber, the bolt is held rearward as far as it can be with minimal bump. But when you slammed the bcg forward, it did just what you're seeing and resized your brass a bit. It can only do so, as much as the bolt to bbl or bbl extension allows..at max. One of the little things that make a bolt gun typically a more accurate design than a gas gun.

 

[ebb]

Use different brass for the bolt action, size it to fit that gun , use other brass for the AR. I have a variety of ARs and some are plinkers, so they get full length, small base die sized brass so they all function well.

 

[sandwarrior]

i am sizing brass to the bolt gun . the trying it in AR was to find if the same sizing of the brass was going to work in the AR. then try'ed a factory loaded one ,the AR set it back .003

I understood what you were doing. Seeing if the AR was the same as the bolt. And, FWIW, if you don't know, you are supposed to let the BCG (bolt carrier group) slam forward when loading a round in an AR.

Where did it shorten .007" and .003" Coal or shoulder measurement? If the latter, you might need to sand/grind down your shellholder so that you get a deeper setting on your die. Meaning your case goes in further to the die and sizes down more. The other thing is making sure your case is loaded under 2.260" Cases that are that length should not be able to get jammed back in the case.

 

[K22]

i am sizing brass to the bolt gun . the trying it in AR was to find if the same sizing of the brass was going to work in the AR. then try'ed a factory loaded one ,the AR set it back .003

In my opinion, this is a formula for problems, using the same cases in a bolt rifle and AR.

In my experience, you will obtain the best accuracy, reliability and case life if you dedicate a group of cases to a specific rifle, rotate their use, and size accordingly using a bump gauge and caliper.

 

[243winxb]

See post # 4 & 10.
Your AR set back seems excessive. I have measured .002" in an M16A1.

Very early military bolt guns allowed sizing of the brass, when chambering rounds harder then normal. I think i read it in Hatcher's notebook?

Note that when a bad primer does not fire in a Savage Axis 223 bold action, the shoulder is set back .006" from the firing pin strike.

shortened .007

 

[divingin]

i am sizing brass to the bolt gun . the trying it in AR was to find if the same sizing of the brass was going to work in the AR. then try'ed a factory loaded one ,the AR set it back .003

Set the shoulder back?

Could be the case mouth is being pushed back at the shoulder as the bullet slams into the feed ramp. Chambering in an AR is rather violent.

Do the same test (dropping the bolt on a known measured round), but place it on top of the magazine rather than in it. That should tell if it's the feed ramp transition deforming things.

 

[dellet]

Not surprising that the shoulder set back .007”. Most/many people size their brass .003-4” from fired length and still get .002-3” on chambering. Not really knowing what the original fit was on the sized brass, it’s pointless to worry about it.

It doesn’t sound like the barrel was out of the upper and the bolt stripped to check headspace and cartridge fit. So if the round was chambered using a forward assist, again it is a non valid data point. The basic reason for the forward assist is to chamber a round that won’t fit.

Now the factory brass bumping back .002-3” might be interesting, since factory loads are either at or below minimum length.

All in all it’s not a big deal, part of the learning curve loading a semi auto and in particular an AR.

Less buffer weight and worn springs on the extractor and ejector will help lessen the crush of loading a round. Slowing the bolt speed and gas flow will further reduce.

You can tune an AR so that you can neck size only. It’s a party trick, and you wouldn’t want count on it feeding if your life depended on it. But they don’t have to load so violently that the shoulders get crushed and the bullets fly out.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

The brass shoulder is making contact with the chamber wall BEFORE the brass face is fully contacting the bolt face, something has to give the brass loses in this case(no pun intended) and the shoulder is pushed further back. I have zero issues sizing 223 brass to fit the Lyman ammo checker, and than loading/firing in both factory bolt guns and AR's. Functionality(like factory ammo) in multiple firearms is also a reloading situation for many, just takes a slightly different protocol than single firearm/dedicated brass reloading.

 

[Zero333]

Case got shorter because when bolt carrier group slammed the brass in the chamber there was plenty of room around the brass for it to expend, not unlike taking a balloon and stretching it sideways and watching the top and bottom become shorter.

Just so you know, the 5.56 nato chamber has different headspace specs than the 223rem.

Even in a bolt gun that's been chambered with a fresh reamer will have a bit more slop inside the walls of the chamber, thus you can just as easily fire a 223 bolt gun with fresh brass and have the same results of the brass getting shorter.

 

[misser]

Set the shoulder back?

Could be the case mouth is being pushed back at the shoulder as the bullet slams into the feed ramp. Chambering in an AR is rather violent.

Do the same test (dropping the bolt on a known measured round), but place it on top of the magazine rather than in it. That should tell if it's the feed ramp transition deforming things.

no ,i placed the brass into the chamber. then closed the bcg. never said i was using the mag

 

[misser]

Just so you know, the 5.56 nato chamber has different headspace specs than the 223rem.

we differ