What era would this powder be from?
- Thread starter Majday
- Start date
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Wow. Flashback to when I was a kid....
That was how they used to sell the bulk surplus government powder back in the day!
That and the 4895 used to come in paper bags or paper tubs before the cans and plastic jugs were used.
A ring to them would tell you when they stopped selling in paper bags but it was long ago...
That was how they used to sell the bulk surplus government powder back in the day!
That and the 4895 used to come in paper bags or paper tubs before the cans and plastic jugs were used.
A ring to them would tell you when they stopped selling in paper bags but it was long ago...
rockhound78
Silver $$ Contributor
I would suspect 60's. I started reloading in '71 and that was before my time.
mike mccormick
Silver $$ Contributor
I would be reluctant to try it, if it has not been stored well. Not worth a bullet stuck in a barrel.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Wild guess on dating it would be pre 1968.
Looks like it was shipped via USPS to a PO Box to Davenport Grange supply. Maybe a post mark on the box still visible?
The Gun Control Act of 1968 introduced the first federal laws control mail order firearms and ammunition. Just a guess.
That would narrow it down to from mid 50’s, early Hodgdon days, to when you could no longer mail powder.
From Hodgdon history on their website “Hodgdon powder company” came into being 1966. That might narrow down the time frame considerably.
Looks like it was shipped via USPS to a PO Box to Davenport Grange supply. Maybe a post mark on the box still visible?
The Gun Control Act of 1968 introduced the first federal laws control mail order firearms and ammunition. Just a guess.
That would narrow it down to from mid 50’s, early Hodgdon days, to when you could no longer mail powder.
From Hodgdon history on their website “Hodgdon powder company” came into being 1966. That might narrow down the time frame considerably.
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I read on Hodgdon's site i think that this started right after WW2 and continued till the surplus powder was gone. The article said the Mr Hodgdon found out the US army was dumping rail cars of 4831 in the ocean. He bought several rail cars and had the kids filling the paper bags after school. I think he said he sold it till it was gone.
I started reloading in 1964 and I was 16 at the time so you can do the math however the only powder that I remember seeing in the local gun shop came in the cardboard canisters or the squarish cardboard bottles if you want to call them that I don’t remember seeing paper bags being sold in the gun stores in the Michigan area in 1964
My suspicion goes along with others who have said back into the 50s
I too would guess the mid to late 50's. I started reloading in 67 or 68, and the only paper bag was from a dealer who purchased a large amount of Herco and sold it in paper bags by the pound. He would weigh it out as you watched. I used that for shotgun and 44 mag. pistol. A lot of powder came in cardboard cans with a metal top and bottom and a push in can lid that had to have screwdriver to get it out, and then the metal cans with the push in top as well, I think I still have a sample of both setting around the loading room. I will have to look. I did have one with the price on it and it made me wish for earlier times.
jds holler
Gold $$ Contributor
Zip codes were created in 1963, and there is one on the bag. That would indicate that it was shipped after that. Now when the powder was manufactured is another guess. jd
Irrespective from how it is packed and when it was delivered, if it's Hodgdon surplus 4831, it dates from WW2. Dupont manufactured this propellant for the 20mm Oerlikon shell, vast numbers of which were used late in the war, primarily in quick-firing anti-aircraft guns mounted on US ships in the Pacific theatre.
As the Pacific war finished long before expected, and Allied planners had been preparing for, the US government was left with huge quantities of these shells after August 1945 and some time later contracted out their demilling. Bruce Hodgdon bought both unused powder from the manufacturing pipeline and the proceeds of this later large recovery operation, but the powder would have been manufactured by August '45 at the latest.
By the time the last of the surplus 4831 was sold, the powder was so old it started to change its behaviours and become slower burning, so users increased loads somewhat. When IMR resumed handloading sales in the 60s, 'fresh' 4831 was 'quicker' and needed lower max charges. When Hodgdon subsequently contracted out the manufacture of new powder to ICI Nobel in Scotland, the company specified that this freshly made stuff matched the behaviour of the now very elderly surplus product, rather than duplicate IMR's fresh production - hence two grades of 4831 with different loads data.
As the Pacific war finished long before expected, and Allied planners had been preparing for, the US government was left with huge quantities of these shells after August 1945 and some time later contracted out their demilling. Bruce Hodgdon bought both unused powder from the manufacturing pipeline and the proceeds of this later large recovery operation, but the powder would have been manufactured by August '45 at the latest.
By the time the last of the surplus 4831 was sold, the powder was so old it started to change its behaviours and become slower burning, so users increased loads somewhat. When IMR resumed handloading sales in the 60s, 'fresh' 4831 was 'quicker' and needed lower max charges. When Hodgdon subsequently contracted out the manufacture of new powder to ICI Nobel in Scotland, the company specified that this freshly made stuff matched the behaviour of the now very elderly surplus product, rather than duplicate IMR's fresh production - hence two grades of 4831 with different loads data.
Dad said you could buy that 4831 cheap. He had a buddy that shot it for years in a 270. It was in paper bags. Doug
centerlineseal
Gold $$ Contributor
Like these. Note the price is $3.60!
These two cans are full and unopened. If anyone in SW Idaho or Eastern Oregon wants these, we can make arrangements.
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bobm
Silver $$ Contributor
A friend's widow gave me these unopened cans last March, no zip code on address. They are empty now having driven 180's from my .30-06 this past summer. Used current load data and the accuracy was excellent. These cans are no more or less air tight than those plasticized bags. There was no distinct smell of ether. I would not be inclined to just dispose of it.
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Larry Koch
Silver $$ Contributor
Now if someone finds a garage full of H-4198 .
My first purchase of h4831 was a 4#(?) cardboard box. Looked old, Shot great. That was 5 years ago.
I sure hate to see you throw it away. I'm betting it is fine
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