I am looking at purchasing a Lathe and Mill with in the next year and a half. I have a chance to purchase some old Lathes from the University I am attending out of the machine tech class they hold there. But I was wanting something made with riflesmithing in mind. I was looking at the G0709 14x40 Gunsmiths Gear Head Lathe and the G0484 9" x 32" Gear-Head Mill / Drill with Stand. I like them Close to what I have used at work and perfect for my Garage. But of course would like your thoughts. Thanks -SCR308
what do you guys think of Grizzly Machine?
- Thread starter eagleI
- Start date
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
I don't know how the idea that there is a difference that would make one lathe a "gunsmithing" lathe and another not (given they have the same swing and bed length). Most likely, from those that make/sell machine tools. There isn't a thing in the world wrong with an older machine as long as it has been taken care of! The only thing you may be giving up is metric capability, and then it depends on how "old" we're talking about. A lathe suitable for gunsmith type work can range from a Southbend 10X sized to a solid 13" x 40" tool room/engine lathe. It's more in the guy "driving" than the machine (as long as the machine isn't worn out,beat-up). When I first entered the machining trade in '74 I was in a job shop where most of the machines had 'war production' tags ( machine tools purchased by the government during WW2 for the war effort). These machines had been well maintained. We were holding tolerances of +/- .001 at production feeds and speeds. Gunsmithing work is done at much reduced rates. Any 'extras', like flood coolant, a good light, and DRO can be added to an older lathe. Those combo mill/drills are not as rigid as a small to medium vertical mill. And, that's what is needed, rigidity.
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
Grizzlys are chinese junk.I have a friend with one and it is a sloppy piece of trash.Buy an older bridgeport and a southbend lathe.Parts are all over the internet and on the ebay.You will get a rigid beatiful older lathe capable of real tolerance's that can be repeatable and trusted to do it.This is what I did.I bought a 13 inch southbend took it all apart and restored it.It works beautiful. There are others like leblonde who bought the rights to southbend and sell parts for them. Dont waste your time on the chinese stuff.Find a hardinge tool room lathe with threading capability.Extremely well built and super accurate.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Some people buy their tools to work with, not *on* 
I know several people who have relatively new Grizzly mills and lathes because they didn't want to play the lottery of finding an old machine that hasn't been ran into the ground, and they turn out pretty fine work - in other words, I'll let them work on my guns! ;D
I know several people who have relatively new Grizzly mills and lathes because they didn't want to play the lottery of finding an old machine that hasn't been ran into the ground, and they turn out pretty fine work - in other words, I'll let them work on my guns! ;D
I had a 1958 18" LeBlond that came off a Destroyer Tender. It had been completely rebuilt, preserved and crated. I got it for $800 at a 1982 auction. It was a great lathe, the earth would flex before it would. But, it had two problems. It was heavy as the burden of sin and a pain to move. It had a small spindle bore. Most newer lathes have generously sized bores, often over 1.5". That can be very helpful for rifle work.
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
SCR308, depends on what kind of lathes the school will be selling. Most surpuls equipment will sell at auction. Depends, also, on how old the lathes are and how they've been used. May not need to be rebuilt. When I went to gunsmithing school, the lathes weren't the newest. They had been around the college system for several years, probably transfered from one school to another for different programs until they found a 'home'. During the first quarter I helped 'clean up' an old hoizontal mill, most likely made in the '40s. The instructor had new arbors and a crate load of freshly sharpened cutters still in wax. A dividing head came from yet another school. Worked like a champ. We were then able to cut flutes and do octagon barrels. If you own any machine tool, sooner or later, be prepared to work on the machine its self. I'd opt for a 20 year old machine out of a school setting over a Grizzley any day. Look what you can learn when you have to make a few machine repairs yourself. It starts when you move a machine to its new 'spot'. It must be leveled, and not with your carpenters level. Tail stock must be alined with the head stock before commencing any work. Some of the best lathe work I did while in school came off an old, belt drive, 13x48" Southbend. Although, it didn't hurt to have that job shop experiance. It was the oldest lathe in the shop and the other students would always head for the newest machines. If I could find an older machine, that was local (transportation), I'd latch on to it in a minute. Brand new machines don't mean better quality work. Like I said in my earlier post, much depends on the guy who's driving.
ShortGrass...I totally agree with you and so does my bank account. When the time comes we will see what happens. There are lots of Machine shops around my parts and I was told its not to hard to find a "good" used one. I love working with the old machines as much as a new CNC Haas, Doonsan Links, or Puma. Anyways I still have a ways to go so...time will tell and thank you guys for all the good thoughts.
This is a well worn subject, but here goes my useless input. You can find PLENTY of quality old american lathes for sale, CHEAP! The shipping and crating is the killer. I run a grizzly 0554Z lathe. I picked it over the "gunsmith" lathe as it has a 3" wider bed. Wider bed means more stability. The spider Grizzly gives you on their smith lathe you can make for $3.00 and 30 minutes of your time. Foot brake, I used it once or twice to see it work, useless. Flood coolant, never used it as my hand oil can works fine and no mess. Repeatability on mine is excellent. I recheck it once every month or so for level all 4 ways and it runs well. Do I wish american lathes were at the same cost shipped to my door? You bet! Will it be reality, not a chance. Mills, I have a Millport. Bridgeport copy. I got lucky and found one local that was cheap. The Grizzly mills I can't comment on but if it is like their lathes, good bang for the buck and customer service there is always good. Flame suit on.
Keydiverfla...any input is always usefull, and the subject is brand new to me. I really like what you had to say..keep it coming. I like your machine too. I am trying to get my Lathe and mill in my garage for 6,000.00 or less. I think this is about what I can pay for with out getting a loan. I hate debt. I see your piont on the foot break and coolant system, but I will just have to see what I like. As for tooling I don't have a clue yet as to what the cost will be but I hope to find a good deal through the school and my work. Any more input is always wellcome...thats why were here right.
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
I have more than twice the amount in tooling, gages and holders as I have in machines. That's where the $$$$$ really are.
Shortgrass makes an excellent point about precisionleveling of machine tools. The type of level I've used is .0005"/ft. accuracy. This is very important with a machine, like a lathe, because of the length and width of the ways. The ways have to be level the full length of the ways and especially across the full length of the ways. This is to eliminate twist in the ways which will effect both diametral and geometric accuracy along the length of the turned part. Also, if this twist is not eliminated, over time, the ways and the carriage will wear unevenly. Many times a machine is blamed for poor accuracy when it is the improper setting- up of the machine's base that is the root cause of the problem.
Another way to look at this your rifle. Think about proper bedding and action screw torque and how variations in torque and incomplete bedding can effect your rifle's accuracy. Same goes for scope base and ring alignment.
If you want to read a mind blowing book about machine accuracy, for a machine geek, look for a copy of Moore Tool's book: "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" written by Wayne Moore.
Another way to look at this your rifle. Think about proper bedding and action screw torque and how variations in torque and incomplete bedding can effect your rifle's accuracy. Same goes for scope base and ring alignment.
If you want to read a mind blowing book about machine accuracy, for a machine geek, look for a copy of Moore Tool's book: "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" written by Wayne Moore.
As also mentioned, tooling will add up quickly. My advice is to buy what you need as you need it, meaning some sets are great but others have a few good ones and some you never use. Milling cutter sets....get good carbide and don't look back. Lathe tooling, I found some of Grizzly tool holders are nice. Get the 13/16 ones and the Mitsubishi inserts. Another place for tooling is MSCDirect. The tool post on the machine will work fine but you WILL eventually need an Aloris. Buy one on ebay with holders for 300 +/- get the B series or a C. Keep us posted and happy chipmaking.
shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
No "sets" of cutting tools. A good milling vice, milling cuttters , tool holders and collets (buy those in sets for the best price), indicators & magnetic bases, edge finders, drill bits & center drills (buy the package), a quick change tool post (wedge type), turning and threading tools (brazed carbide can be re-sharpened, you'll need a 'green wheel' for your grinder), drill chuck & arbor (one for the mill, one for the lathe), live center, boring bars, taps (unless you want to 'single point' a 1/4-20 blind hole). These are just some of the things you, probably, won't want to 'make'. The cheaper imported stuff won't last or work like it should and the better stuff costs. But then,,,, think of the things you could make. Think J&L/MSC.
jghoghunter
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a Grizzly lathe and a mill and drill they both work great. Make sure when you buy one that it has a ISO 9001 number on it. This means that if you do need to find parts for it the originals were made to industry standards.
The machine is the cheapest part of buying one, many times over is the cost of the tooling needed to do a great job.
The machine is the cheapest part of buying one, many times over is the cost of the tooling needed to do a great job.
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