what do you cowboys shooters do for low powder level reloads

[boltfluter]

Found that on Amazon. Is there a certain technique? Or just stuff in?

Weigh the Kapok, I believe I used 1 grain. This is important just like the powder charge. As it is taking up space. Fluff it up and insert. Do not push it down to the bottom and smash it. I used a pencil to install. Just install till you touch the powder and good to go. Hopefully this makes sense.
Paul

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Thanks.
I will see if this works.

I am not unhappy with the Maker bullets.
They group good at 100 yards for a subsonic round. I was concerned with the bullet holes seemingly being out of round, but after checking with Paul, he said this was normal.

If I can get the group a little tighter, this is going to work out great for a long range pig thumper.

 

[dellet]

Thanks.
I will see if this works.

I am not unhappy with the Maker bullets.
They group good at 100 yards for a subsonic round. I was concerned with the bullet holes seemingly being out of round, but after checking with Paul, he said this was normal.

If I can get the group a little tighter, this is going to work out great for a long range pig thumper.

View attachment 1660230

Not un common, but not desirable. You want the tip of the bullet to hit square to the impact for best expansion. That said, the Maker will open up more than double bullet diameter no matter how it hits. But that little bit of wobble will kill your groups at distance

What often causes it, is poor groove to bullet diameter relationship. Possibly explains your SD also. Copper takes a lot of pressure to obturate, to bump up and seal the bore. If you can recover a couple bullets, there might be carbonall the way up the bearing surface. Showing blow by and gas cutting.

You might try a faster powder. Higher pressure to help bump up the base. It’s counter intuitive to raise pressure and at the same time drop velocity, but it’s key to tight groups with subs. Copper bullets, need pressure.

Trail boss will probably not work for you. You may not be able to get enough in the case to push the heavy bullet. Beg borrow or steal some to try before you buy. This is where VV Tinstar would have been perfect. Accurate #2 & #5 might work. Quickload and GR will be your best friends with subs and powder models.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Not un common, but not desirable. You want the tip of the bullet to hit square to the impact for best expansion. That said, the Maker will open up more than double bullet diameter no matter how it hits. But that little bit of wobble will kill your groups at distance

What often causes it, is poor groove to bullet diameter relationship. Possibly explains your SD also. Copper takes a lot of pressure to obturate, to bump up and seal the bore. If you can recover a couple bullets, there might be carbonall the way up the bearing surface. Showing blow by and gas cutting.

You might try a faster powder. Higher pressure to help bump up the base. It’s counter intuitive to raise pressure and at the same time drop velocity, but it’s key to tight groups with subs. Copper bullets, need pressure.

Trail boss will probably not work for you. You may not be able to get enough in the case to push the heavy bullet. Beg borrow or steal some to try before you buy. This is where VV Tinstar would have been perfect. Accurate #2 & #5 might work. Quickload and GR will be your best friends with subs and powder models.

i don't have quick load.
These holes were from A2400 at 980 fps. Would speeding them up to 1050 help?
This is supposed top be a 1:8 barrel. I have no personally measured it.


The powders I have that might work are:
2400
H110
AA1680 (tons of)
Unique (tons of)
Lil Gun (tons of)

@dellet any suggestions on what powder to try next? Should I try it with the kapok? or without?

 

[linebaugh]

Does that target have a backer? Reason I ask. I saw the same thing and thought my bullets were not stabilizing. In my case the .375 - 350 SMK, I believe, was tipping on impact with the backer. My subs will shoot around an inch at 100 and nearly always an inch or less wide. Vertical is a bear on heavy subs if you cant control ES. I will occassionally get an on flyer high or low that will open things up to 1.5-1.75" with many basically touching like in your picture.
At 207 yards I can very consistently hit a 4" gong which speaks of stability. We shot at 340 yards in a fair bit of wind and were keeping them very regularly on a 10" gong. The vertical and the wind were both causing issues but we would get many multiple impact strigs.

Subs are just frustrsting. As a side note I tried magnum and standard primers of a few flavors and that 20FPS ES seems to be about all I can acheive. I also tried several powders. I feel like neck tension is probably one of the bigger culprits but I had so much time wrapped up in that project I kind of settled for what I got.

 

[dellet]

i don't have quick load.
These holes were from A2400 at 980 fps. Would speeding them up to 1050 help?
This is supposed top be a 1:8 barrel. I have no personally measured it.


The powders I have that might work are:
2400
H110
AA1680 (tons of)
Unique (tons of)
Lil Gun (tons of)

@dellet any suggestions on what powder to try next? Should I try it with the kapok? or without?

The only powder faster than 2400 you have listed is unique. Without known data I’d want to run it through quickload. I’d be happy to do that later. I know that JD jones had data for HP38/231, which is faster than unique with less bulk so it may not be a bad choice. It seems like a dirty powder and that has kept me from falling in love with it.

It wouldn’t hurt to up your velocity. If the tipping goes away it’s more likely due to higher pressure than spin rate. 100 fps just won’t change rpm much. But 1000 pounds might. If your that close on spin, you probably need a faster twist.

Another thing that can help ES/SD numbers is the dreaded C word. Don’t be afraid to try a little crimp.

Remember subs are always about compromise. If you can get rid of the vertical with tightening the spreads, live with the tip. Just take it out to 2-300 yards and make sure it doesn’t turn into keyholes. You probably never will get round holes, the velocity you want, the groups you want with the quietest load and cleanest burn. It just seems too much to ask to get it all. Pick your battles.

I’m not a real big fan of anything extra in a cartridge that might collect in a suppressor. Un burned powder, lead, kapok, cotton, lube, gas checks…… just a personal taboo. A lot of people say I’m paranoid about it. Been able to avoid it by spending more time on load development and powder changes.

The first loads take time. And more time. Once you get a couple working, it gets pretty easy, with some time. Look at what the big kids are doing at long range for prep, and apply it. A lot of what they do really only matters in the last couple hundred yards, in the trans sonic part of the flight. Subsonic shooting is right there from the muzzle. A 1% change with a fifty grain load is a lot smaller with a 10 grain load. That thought alone helped me more than anything shooting subs.

Keep at it, did I mention first loads take time?

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

I am actually very happy with 1.5 moa at 100 yards. This most likely never go consistently passed 300 yards and steel.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

This is the project.

 

[42787]

AS far as cowboy loads for 38 special, 44 special, 45 colt, look at what the book says. It will work just fine as is. I have shot in cowboy matches for near 20 years and never saw anybody use fillers. I use Tightgroup and 231 in 45 colt. In the rifle calibers filler may help, but I don't use them. Also we only shoot lead bullets.

 

[Larry Koch]

back in the good old days before there was Trail Boss, cream of wheat was used in 45 long colt. on top of the powder charge. Dont shake your ammo to much and the powder will stay separated. If done correctly