Western Colorado shoots their first E-Target 600 yard Benchrest match

[Mulligan]

One of the older gents that used to shoot at our range had an interesting concept - one that I'm more and more in favor of as I get older and less tolerant of dealing with certain attitudes: that before you could achieve HM rank, you had to successfully set up and run at least three matches by yourself, in order to have some clue as to all the little things that can and do go sideways, and that MDs have to deal with - including that 1% of pissy/entitled competitors. More of a HP thing with the shooter classifications, but I'm sure there are plenty of BR match directors that know *exactly* what I'm talking about.

Damn skippy!
I like that old timer and I likely don’t even know him!
Although, I’ve shot at Spokane a few times, so maybe there? Or Rexburg?

CW

 

[tom]

I certainly didn't want to offend you Clay, as that was not my intention. I would still love to see a range run them combined with paper, and the results compiled. Maybe it would help this hillbilly that likes to take his holes home become a convert lol.

Tom

 

[memilanuk]

Damn skippy!
I like that old timer and I likely don’t even know him!
Although, I’ve shot at Spokane a few times, so maybe there? Or Rexburg?

He might have gotten over that direction. He was pretty much done by the time I got started shooting HP, almost 20 years ago. Barry-something, IIRC. We're a little further west (Wenatchee), so it's about a toss-up between driving over the mountain passes and suburban traffic to places like Puyallup, Tacoma and Machias, or drive a little further (but it's a straight shot) to Spokane.

 

[Mulligan]

All,
I think it is super important to point out that Freedom Benchrest seen this coming and developed two separate records systems, one for the Traditional Benchrest systems we all know and love, and another for the electronically scored matches (e-Target Matches).

The way we ran and shot this match is in no way an attempt to change the traditional system, Traditional Benchrest is on solid ground.

CW

 

[Jdne5b]

Regardless of E-targets, thanks for stepping up and out of the normal to run these matches and try something new. Running matches is hard enough, dealing with feedback regarding aspects that you probably don’t have control over is even harder.

 

[Alibaba]

All,
I think it is super important to point out that Freedom Benchrest seen this coming and developed two separate records systems, one for the Traditional Benchrest systems we all know and love, and another for the electronically scored matches (e-Target Matches).

The way we ran and shot this match is in no way an attempt to change the traditional system, Traditional Benchrest is on solid ground.

CW

Clay
Great job we are behind you 100%!
Thank you
Al. B

 

[Ga. Dawg]

All,
I think it is super important to point out that Freedom Benchrest seen this coming and developed two separate records systems, one for the Traditional Benchrest systems we all know and love, and another for the electronically scored matches (e-Target Matches).

The way we ran and shot this match is in no way an attempt to change the traditional system, Traditional Benchrest is on solid ground.

CW

We came out of the 19th century

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

I shoot both short range and long range benchrest.
I have scored a metric ton of targets for long range.
I have never and I mean never measured my targets when I get home and came up with what was measured at the range. I have also photographed LOTS of targets and used computer programs to measure the same targets, never the same as range measured. There is error in this sport, period.

I have NEVER protested a target, and I hope I never do. Sure I have seen errors, honest errors and I let it be. Most shooters squeal about the errors made against them but never say a word about the errors in their favor.

Shoot the game and have fun. We will always have "serious" matches, but affordable local matches are of value too.

Take care
CW

^^^^^^^ this!!
As someone who has measured targets for registered matches for over 20 years I will guarantee that no one including me (with somewhere @ 100K under my belt) can measure the same target to the same measurement (blind) more than once or twice out of ten tries. Close yes, the same not likely. As Mulligan points out, an inexact sport that strives for perfection.
Just chill and enjoy the breeze!
G

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

We came out of the 19th century

As the Brontosaurus said to the T-Rex…
“What the hell is that large shiny object coming towards us?”

 

[Dave Way]

@Mulligan the question had already been brought up by someone questioning electronic as well as paper records when I replied. That’s when I added my thoughts. If I helped take this thread sideways, I’m sorry about that. I’m glad you tried this actually. It brought up another post by @LRPV on electronic targets. I do think we need to consider electronics but we really need to determine the amount of error we are comfortable with.

Clay, I wasn’t trying to offend you, your shooters or the decisions your club makes and if anyone took it that way, I apologize.

Dave.

 

[Mulligan]

@Mulligan the question had already been brought up by someone questioning electronic as well as paper records when I replied. That’s when I added my thoughts. If I helped take this thread sideways, I’m sorry about that. I’m glad you tried this actually. It brought up another post by @LRPV on electronic targets. I do think we need to consider electronics but we really need to determine the amount of error we are comfortable with.

Clay, I wasn’t trying to offend you, your shooters or the decisions your club makes and if anyone took it that way, I apologize.

Dave.

Dave

Here’s the deal.
It is fully daylighted and out in the open for folks to ponder and digest now. What is written here as thoughts come to mind is but a snapshot of all the ruminating.

What I find super cool is this. If you combine the phone calls, emails, private messages, and posts on this thread and the other thread about etargets used in benchrest, I am now aware of several ranges that plowed that field long ago, and are still using etargets for benchrest matches.

@jackieschmidt Jackie Schmidt on the other thread openly pondered the use of etargets for short range group, stating several ranges starting shooting score because setup and tear down was less of a hassle than dealing with moving backers in the group game. And guess what? Another range said they are using them in that fashion for that reason.

This is good stuff and your opinions matter to me, thank you.
We want a program that is top shelf and to that end, we will keep on keeping on.

Kind regards
CW

 

[boltman13]

I turned 75 a few days after shooting Clay's match at WCRSC. I hade shot at least 10 matches at the same Club over the last several years on paper targets. I have also shot many 600 yard F-Class matches and a few 1,000 yard F-Class matches on e-targets, and many 600 and 1,000 yard F-Class matches on paper targets.
I have pulled paper targets on at least 7 different ranges over the past 30 years. My impression of the issue of paper vs. e-targets is:
1) Pit duty sucks in the summer, except for CRC.
2) Solo target pulling really sucks. Two person pulling is much easier but still sucks.
3) The social aspect of pit duty is real and I have had many enjoyable conversations with fellow shooters. I would miss that, but there is social interaction behind the ready line with e-targets.
4) E-target feedback on previous shots is as good or better than paper targets.
5) Screen shots of string totals are useful after the match.
6) At my level as a shooter, HM at 600 yards, EX at 1,000 in F-Class they e-targets are accurate enough for
me.
7) I very much prefer e-targets for 600 yard BR over paper and a steel plate for sighters.
8) E-target scoring service is faster than one person target service, and almost as fast as two person,
sometimes even faster.
YMMV

 

[Petersp3]

Not a fan Clay. I guess I’m old fashioned but I don’t trust electronics in general. I’m hoping that electronic scoring doesn’t replace paper targets. Using it to count shots is one thing but measuring to .001”, not for me.

How do you handle crossfires without a set of paper targets? Often one can tell from bullet caliber or colored bullets.

Dave.

Dont trust electronics? So does that mean you don’t use an electronic scale , trickler or calipers ?

 

[Dave Way]

Dont trust electronics? So does that mean you don’t use an electronic scale , trickler or calipers ?

Actually I have at one time or another had problems with all three!

I have a backup scale, trickler and caliper. You don’t have the option of a spare electronic target but if that’s what they choose to use, that’s up to the club.

Dave.

 

[tom]

I'm not Dave, but I don't trust them enough to only have 1, lol. And I've always used analog calipers, and prefer them.

Tom

 

[Evan]

I'm not Dave, but I don't trust them enough to only have 1, lol. And I've always used analog calipers, and prefer them. View attachment 1515374

Tom

Yes but are they vernier? I have a couple sets of Vernier calipers that I will not give up!

 

[Mulligan]

Our next match is scheduled for the 10th of February.
We have been working with Adam and Laura to get the system as good as we can.
We WILL be shooting on Shotmarkers (we will not be pulling paper during our Winter League), all shooters are welcome to attend and see what it is all about.

Many thanks for all the amazing calls, texts, and emails supporting this endeavor.

I personally fill blessed to have such amazing folk's to call my friends.

CW

 

[Alibaba]

Clay,
If you were a bit closer I would come.
Maybe in the summer I will come to shoot with you guys.
Al. B

 

[Ga. Dawg]

I may catch a ride with Al. B

Mike

 

[Ronnie milford]

If Al will carry my equipment I would definitely fly out to shoot with you guys Clay your pictures are amazing and your enthusiasm is outstanding Keep up the good work
Ronnie