Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Western Colorado shoots their first E-Target 600 yard Benchrest match
- Thread starter Mulligan
- Start date
Nice shooting Bill’
Looks like a MBR Tooley stock on the fine shooting rifle and an old school Sinclair front rest.
I love it..
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Bill owns a couple of 1000 yard NBRSA records shooting the old school equipment. Some things get a little bling or upgrades but not sure they are any more serviceable to a master.
CW
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Separate records
We ran the entire match on one set of records, no issues.
Fast and smooth between relays
We calibrate to the center of the frame, we have a 3 target program Adam built for Freedom Benchrest
CW
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Dave, not on this match.
Each shooter could see every round as it hit and the group as it was forming, but no paper was pulled.
We do plan to mix the two, but during these winter matches, we made the decision to try this method.
Each shooter could screen shot the group for later reference if they wanted to.
CW
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Nope, no paper was measured, or pulled.
We gave it a try, and it went fast, and easy after the herky-jerky start due to normal learning of a new process.
The f-class shooters went down this road 6-8 years ago, now, e-targets are the norm……….. even at the BIG matches.
Yes it’s different,
Our older shooters loved the idea of no “ pit duty or target duty” and so did most of the shooters on this January day.
CW
Not a fan Clay. I guess I’m old fashioned but I don’t trust electronics in general. I’m hoping that electronic scoring doesn’t replace paper targets. Using it to count shots is one thing but measuring to .001”, not for me.
How do you handle crossfires without a set of paper targets? Often one can tell from bullet caliber or colored bullets.
Dave.
How do you handle crossfires without a set of paper targets? Often one can tell from bullet caliber or colored bullets.
Dave.
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
Good question,
Each shooter had a spotter- the other relay.
That person is watching the shooter shoot and hits on target. If an errent shots hits the target, they are looking too the other spotters to call it out. In other words, there is Adult Supervision for every shooter! Anyone swinging to the next target frame would be easy for the spotter to see.
On accuracy,: these very arguments were made with a world of passion nearly a decade ago. In the end, e-targets are pretty darn accurate and the “error” in the system is not only small, but it is equal amount all target frames.
To this point, on of the shooters had the same question. He bought a system and without calibrating it, took it out and tested it. He shot 8, 4 shot groups and recorded the systems measurements for each group, he pulled paper each time.
This is the guy who measures groups at all of our matches and he makes a living with a set of calipers close at hand.
He ended up with a total of .070” error over the uncalibrated 8 target agg. With that, he was sold-lock, stock, and barrel!
CW
Edited to fix a grammatical error
CW
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Mikemontminy
Silver $$ Contributor
As far as cross fires I believe you can also see the angle of the bullet coming into the target .
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
You are correct
The target system displays a banner across the target warning the user that the approach angle is near max or has exceeded max.
The spotter has the option to accept the shot in question. Of course all spectators and stats house can and likely are viewing the targets as the shooter is shooting, so you have multiple folks watching.
On the bottom of your viewing screen, you can select any target you want to watch…. And bounce between them as you want.
The system works well and is fun
CW
tom
Gold $$ Contributor
I only have one "1st hand experience", and that was sort of 2nd hand lol. @DHuffman shot his 12 shot tuning ladder through one , but on paper as well. The take away I had was it's close, but not close enough. If memory serves, 2 shots were close to an entire bullet hole off, some quite precise, and the rest only slightly off. Although the group size was similar enough for testing loads. I also noticed all the error was plotting them favoring them being closer to center than actual as well. I literally stop looking when I see screen shots posted, or whatever that's called. I guess I prefer holes as well, but if you got guys willing to attend then great. Hopefully people will have both, and basically by default do a study over a season on just how precise they are now.
Tom
DHuffman
Silver $$ Contributor
You must be talking about Harris MN at the 2019 600 Nationals because that's the only time I remember shooting on an e target. I don't really remember paying attention to the shotmarker tablet and know I didn't give it more than a glance when the ladder was done because I had holes in paper I needed to go look at. The poor guy running the line thought he was going to convert me over but was mistaken.
My favorite part of tuning is the anticipation driving down to the paper to see what you have. Sorting out the colors and connecting the dots because even if I mark the holes my brain still can't process it until I get it all colored up. You let em' rip without the pressure of knowing you have 2 almost or touching and botching the third.
Thanks for bringing that up @tom, that match & the match at Elbow Lake just before it were the first two matches where things started coming together for me and being there with you, @Torge & @Northridge was a great time.
I got a little tuning done before it went all -30 below and I'm going to try to make DC in March.
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Tom E
Gold $$ Contributor
We have 14 E-targets purchased for our f class matches, simple,way cheaper than pits, the older generation don’t want to pull targets, and fun
As far as benchrest, always in the back of my mind, I wanted them to count shots, not an easy task! To pull off without expenses
Here at the valley, my plan would be to use paper and a crew, same as we always have done. I will say getting kids that are able to work and not busy gets harder every year for us. That’s why I feel these decisions come down to ranges and what they have to do to keep them going, I’m glad guys are trying it, the more we find out, the more work folks put in , the technology will only get better is my hopes.
I’m probably as ol school about things as anyone, but each and every place has different circumstances.
I mean look at all the other electronics we trust, scales, tricklers, auto powder measures, bullet genies, we have came a long ways in 10 years
As far as benchrest, always in the back of my mind, I wanted them to count shots, not an easy task! To pull off without expenses
Here at the valley, my plan would be to use paper and a crew, same as we always have done. I will say getting kids that are able to work and not busy gets harder every year for us. That’s why I feel these decisions come down to ranges and what they have to do to keep them going, I’m glad guys are trying it, the more we find out, the more work folks put in , the technology will only get better is my hopes.
I’m probably as ol school about things as anyone, but each and every place has different circumstances.
I mean look at all the other electronics we trust, scales, tricklers, auto powder measures, bullet genies, we have came a long ways in 10 years
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
E-Targets have been a blessing to many older service rifle shooters who cannot pull pit duty any longer......error or not. The error, however small, is present and fair across all the targets in the "system".
Many ranges currently hold F-Class matches now with e-targets that would otherwise not be able to host those matches because they do not have pits or the resources to construct pits. That is one of the many reasons it was the fastest growing of all the shooting sports for several years...... besides it being darn fun.
Many of us have shot on shotmarkers for several years now and fully understand the weakness of the system. Their strength is what keeps us using them. They are very accurate, the error is closer to the same across systems than most people think. Although I do not have study to point to, the shotmarkers do tend (from my experience) to measure center to center of groups smaller than my calipers do. Again, if the error in smaller measurement of groups is even across the system (and it is), why would I give it another thought. Every target is measured the exact same way at our match........ that is fair.
I am not sure why some folks feel inclined to negatively vent on this thread because we did something different, but they do. And to that end, I wish you all well. We will stay the course here at Western Colorado and do what is best for our program. We will make some mistakes and have some successes. All of which we are willing to share here on an open forum because we want to grow the program.
Besides CRC on the front range (5 hours away across the divide) Sac is the closest range to us, then Deep Creek in MT, Then the lads in Tuscan. Vapor Trail is over 14 hours away and SD and SL are both closer to 15 hours away. So, we shoot every month because there are no other clubs around to "share" the load with. We are hoping to pick up a range in WY and Terry at CRC is starting a 600 yard program this spring. The point is, that we are developing a program here in the Central Rockies that is growing and we think e-targets will help. Ask us in a year or two how it's working out, because as of now it is all positive and we hope that continues, but we do not know.
At this time we intend to shoot our "Winter League" completely on e-targets this season. How will we know if we don't give it an honest effort? We plan to shoot the regular season (May through Oct) on the same frames with e-target running for sighters and pull paper for regular measurement.
In closing I will add, several shooters plainly asked at the end of the day, "Clay, why would we ever go back to pulling paper"? "This system is so much better". They really were well pleased.
I have sent my comments in to Adam this morning for system additions to the Freedom X3 target he developed for us.
I will keep folks posted as things change.
Regards
Clay
Many ranges currently hold F-Class matches now with e-targets that would otherwise not be able to host those matches because they do not have pits or the resources to construct pits. That is one of the many reasons it was the fastest growing of all the shooting sports for several years...... besides it being darn fun.
Many of us have shot on shotmarkers for several years now and fully understand the weakness of the system. Their strength is what keeps us using them. They are very accurate, the error is closer to the same across systems than most people think. Although I do not have study to point to, the shotmarkers do tend (from my experience) to measure center to center of groups smaller than my calipers do. Again, if the error in smaller measurement of groups is even across the system (and it is), why would I give it another thought. Every target is measured the exact same way at our match........ that is fair.
I am not sure why some folks feel inclined to negatively vent on this thread because we did something different, but they do. And to that end, I wish you all well. We will stay the course here at Western Colorado and do what is best for our program. We will make some mistakes and have some successes. All of which we are willing to share here on an open forum because we want to grow the program.
Besides CRC on the front range (5 hours away across the divide) Sac is the closest range to us, then Deep Creek in MT, Then the lads in Tuscan. Vapor Trail is over 14 hours away and SD and SL are both closer to 15 hours away. So, we shoot every month because there are no other clubs around to "share" the load with. We are hoping to pick up a range in WY and Terry at CRC is starting a 600 yard program this spring. The point is, that we are developing a program here in the Central Rockies that is growing and we think e-targets will help. Ask us in a year or two how it's working out, because as of now it is all positive and we hope that continues, but we do not know.
At this time we intend to shoot our "Winter League" completely on e-targets this season. How will we know if we don't give it an honest effort? We plan to shoot the regular season (May through Oct) on the same frames with e-target running for sighters and pull paper for regular measurement.
In closing I will add, several shooters plainly asked at the end of the day, "Clay, why would we ever go back to pulling paper"? "This system is so much better". They really were well pleased.
I have sent my comments in to Adam this morning for system additions to the Freedom X3 target he developed for us.
I will keep folks posted as things change.
Regards
Clay
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