Well remington pulled it off-

[Ccrider]

Looks like they got the ammo division. $65million plus debt.

There will likely be other bidders.

 

[INTJ]

So what in the fire control or bolt configuration did bat do that was groundbreaking? Its the same as every other purpose built br action before it- did you know that the early stolles used remington bolts? Did you know that pretty much every custom action, certainly every benchrest quality action, is an improved copy of another action before it? And did you know that they were a tighter tolerance remington? Dont take this as bat bashing, thats hardly the case since thats all ive used since my single digit serial number bat was made manually, but they all are direct descendants of the remington pattern. Back when i started in br remingtons were still winning. True em up real good and install a beeson bolt and you were ready to go. If you were real serious you installed a sleeve on it and then it looked just like a panda. Save up and get a hall, searcy, hart or panda and keep on upgrading.

I forgot about this thread. I never claimed BAT did anything groundbreaking. What they do is precisely machine a high quality action, as do other custom action makers. Factory actions are not built to those standards and require a lot of work to get them close to that level. And then they are just close, not the same.

In the 1800s bolt actions arrived on the scene. Due to panicked soldiers short stroking the earlier push feed designs, controlled round feed became the standard. The Mauser 98 was the culmination of what was found to work in bolt action battle field. The Enfield and Springfield copied the basic idea.

The Winchester 54 was an improvement of the bolt action and designed for hunting, and the Winchester pre 64 M-70 was an even further refinement.

The pre-64 M-70 became dominant. Remington's Model 30 and Model 720, which used Enfield actions, didn't seem to make a huge splash.

So in 1948 Rem introduced the Model 721 and 722. These were designed for ease of production and were something like 20% less than an M-70. They reverted back to a push feed design, not because it was better but because it was cheaper.

Back in the late 40s and early 50s most hunters did not have the disposable income that hunters have today. Many of not most were like my dad who had one or two rifles and cost was a huge factor.

In 1953 my dad went to the hardware store to buy his hunting rifle, a Win Model 70 in .270. They didn't have one in stock. The salesman told my dad to take the Rem 721 he had in stock, gave him a box of ammo, and told him to shoot it. If he didn't like it he could bring it back. Dad said with iron sights at 200 yds he kept all 20 shots in about a 4" group and figured that was good enough. Besides, the 721 was cheaper.

And that illustrates why the Rem 721/722 took over the market. They usually worked as well as the Winchester M-70s are were a lot less expensive. Because they were built after WW-II, when the quality of steels has dramatically improved, the 721/722 was found to be a strong action as well. All that worked fine for most US hunters.

The Rem refined the 721/722/725 and came out with the 700 in 1962. It was still built around the idea of economical manufacturing, and they began to hype the "three rings of steel" of idea. They tried to convince the public that the three rings of steel and push feed design made the 700 was stronger and more accurate than other actions (it wasn't). They simply didn't mention all the issues with short stroking, failure to extract, and later the accidental discharge issue.

Regardless, many people bought into the advertising, myself included. Because the Rem 700 became so popular a larger aftermarket developed and thus it was easy to adapt the 700 to other uses. Well, many African DG hunters weren't so impressed but they were never a large group anyway.

When I became serious about hunting and shooting in the early 1990s I went all in with Remington. I bought into the hype. I generally had good results. Then with enough use I started experiencing all the issues I had read about. I had an extractor break, I had a one that would randomly fail to extract a round, I had some that wouldn't feed (bolt wouldn't close), I had some that wouldn't eject reliably. I had stainless actions gall terribly. I didn't have a bolt handle come off, but I did have an AD and my dad had one as well with his 721.

So I took a chance with CRF M-70s, and found the accuracy was as good, sometimes better, and they
didn't have feeding/extraction/galling/AD issues. I also learned they were as strong as strength comes from how well the case is supported in the barrel, not rings, and the CRF M-70 does that well.

So I am now a CRF M-70 guy for bolt action centerfire hunting rifles and have been for a while now. I have had much better results than I did with Remingtons. I do have a 700 in .223 and I like my 541 THB. I have a CZ Safari American in 458 Lott. Other than that, all my big game rifles from .270 to .416 are CRF M-70s, pre-64, New Haven, and FN.

So in my mind the Rem 700 is nothing special, just and inexpensive bolt action that happened to work reasonably well most of the time.

 

[Tommie]

Dusty,
A mutual friend of ours told me that the ammo plant is still up and running. Can you verify?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty,
A mutual friend of ours told me that the ammo plant is still up and running. Can you verify?

Yes it is. The company, who the management has not officially named, thats buying them is funding its operation so they dont lose the talent or grow cobwebs in there

 

[MadDog3355]

I forgot about this thread. I never claimed BAT did anything groundbreaking. What they do is precisely machine a high quality action, as do other custom action makers. Factory actions are not built to those standards and require a lot of work to get them close to that level. And then they are just close, not the same.

In the 1800s bolt actions arrived on the scene. Due to panicked soldiers short stroking the earlier push feed designs, controlled round feed became the standard. The Mauser 98 was the culmination of what was found to work in bolt action battle field. The Enfield and Springfield copied the basic idea.

The Winchester 54 was an improvement of the bolt action and designed for hunting, and the Winchester pre 64 M-70 was an even further refinement.

The pre-64 M-70 became dominant. Remington's Model 30 and Model 720, which used Enfield actions, didn't seem to make a huge splash.

So in 1948 Rem introduced the Model 721 and 722. These were designed for ease of production and were something like 20% less than an M-70. They reverted back to a push feed design, not because it was better but because it was cheaper.

Back in the late 40s and early 50s most hunters did not have the disposable income that hunters have today. Many of not most were like my dad who had one or two rifles and cost was a huge factor.

In 1953 my dad went to the hardware store to buy his hunting rifle, a Win Model 70 in .270. They didn't have one in stock. The salesman told my dad to take the Rem 721 he had in stock, gave him a box of ammo, and told him to shoot it. If he didn't like it he could bring it back. Dad said with iron sights at 200 yds he kept all 20 shots in about a 4" group and figured that was good enough. Besides, the 721 was cheaper.

And that illustrates why the Rem 721/722 took over the market. They usually worked as well as the Winchester M-70s are were a lot less expensive. Because they were built after WW-II, when the quality of steels has dramatically improved, the 721/722 was found to be a strong action as well. All that worked fine for most US hunters.

The Rem refined the 721/722/725 and came out with the 700 in 1962. It was still built around the idea of economical manufacturing, and they began to hype the "three rings of steel" of idea. They tried to convince the public that the three rings of steel and push feed design made the 700 was stronger and more accurate than other actions (it wasn't). They simply didn't mention all the issues with short stroking, failure to extract, and later the accidental discharge issue.

Regardless, many people bought into the advertising, myself included. Because the Rem 700 became so popular a larger aftermarket developed and thus it was easy to adapt the 700 to other uses. Well, many African DG hunters weren't so impressed but they were never a large group anyway.

When I became serious about hunting and shooting in the early 1990s I went all in with Remington. I bought into the hype. I generally had good results. Then with enough use I started experiencing all the issues I had read about. I had an extractor break, I had a one that would randomly fail to extract a round, I had some that wouldn't feed (bolt wouldn't close), I had some that wouldn't eject reliably. I had stainless actions gall terribly. I didn't have a bolt handle come off, but I did have an AD and my dad had one as well with his 721.

So I took a chance with CRF M-70s, and found the accuracy was as good, sometimes better, and they
didn't have feeding/extraction/galling/AD issues. I also learned they were as strong as strength comes from how well the case is supported in the barrel, not rings, and the CRF M-70 does that well.

So I am now a CRF M-70 guy for bolt action centerfire hunting rifles and have been for a while now. I have had much better results than I did with Remingtons. I do have a 700 in .223 and I like my 541 THB. I have a CZ Safari American in 458 Lott. Other than that, all my big game rifles from .270 to .416 are CRF M-70s, pre-64, New Haven, and FN.

So in my mind the Rem 700 is nothing special, just and inexpensive bolt action that happened to work reasonably well most of the time.

I’m an older Remington 700 fan but I did have a silver soldered bolt handle come off!!

 

[INTJ]

I’m an older Remington 700 fan but I did have a silver soldered bolt handle come off!!

Eve though I am not as enthused about Remington 700s anymore, I do hope they survive all this and keep making firearms. I would love it if the would reintroduce the 720 in say 375 HH, 416 Rem, and 458 Lott.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Eve though I am not as enthused about Remington 700s anymore, I do hope they survive all this and keep making firearms. I would love it if the would reintroduce the 720 in say 375 HH, 416 Rem, and 458 Lott.

Im going to buy one of the cz safari magnums as soon as they open the plant in little rock

 

[Tommie]

Im going to buy one of the cz safari magnums as soon as they open the plant in little rock

You won’t regret that purchase

 

[INTJ]

Im going to buy one of the cz safari magnums as soon as they open the plant in little rock

CZ is opening a plant in AR? That's awesome! To me, the CZ Safari's best calling is in the large calibers like 500 Jeff, 505 Gibbs, etc. I stumbled into an outstanding deal on a 375 that also has a barrel in 458 Lott. I swapped the stock, barrel, and got the correct magazine and follower, but that is too big of a change to make with just parts. I sent it to Wayne at AHR rifles and he made it feed, coated it, added an M-70 style three position safety, and his single stage trigger mod.

 

[Terry_M]

Remington closed the factory, but I was under the impression Palmetto State Armory was buying it, and presumably, resuming operation.

 

[mensajd]

Regardless, Remington is dead to me. Formerly a great brand but I wouldn't touch one even for free. In B-school/economics, we call this creative destruction,

 

[butchlambert]

Regardless, Remington is dead to me. Formerly a great brand but I wouldn't touch one even for free. In B-school/economics, we call this creative destruction,

Regardless, Remington is dead to me. Formerly a great brand but I wouldn't touch one even for free. In B-school/economics, we call this creative destruction,

Good, that is another for me.

 

[mensajd]

Good, that is another for me.

Have them all. I hope they succeed but I won't participate.

 

[JimT]

Im going to buy one of the cz safari magnums as soon as they open the plant in little rock

Craig Boddington wrote a story on Brno rifles in the May/June 2020 edition of Sports Afield in which he indicated that CZ is no longer producing 1898 patterned Mauser actions due to the high cost. Apparently, they were still being produced on manually operated milling machines. He indicated they ceased production in 2019, but not until they produced a two-year inventory. These were all 550 Safari Magnum actions. Do you know something he doesn’t?

 

[Tommie]

Good, that is another for me.

Well, goody for you.

 

[rockhound78]

I hope Remington survives. As far as the Rem. 700 problems, I haven't had any of them. No AD's, no extractor breakage, no handles coming off, ect. The only problem I had was with a 700 BDL I bought as my first deer rife. Wouldn't keep under a 12" group@100yds. That is until I figured out the inletting work for the barrel/action was crooked. Took off about 1/8" off one side of the barrel channed and glass bedded it. Shot great afterwards

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Craig Boddington wrote a story on Brno rifles in the May/June 2020 edition of Sports Afield in which he indicated that CZ is no longer producing 1898 patterned Mauser actions due to the high cost. Apparently, they were still being produced on manually operated milling machines. He indicated they ceased production in 2019, but not until they produced a two-year inventory. These were all 550 Safari Magnum actions. Do you know something he doesn’t?

Theyre still selling the old inventory as far as i can tell. Im going to buy a few different guns just to support them not necessarily because theyre being made there. Had one about 6mo ago and it was still a brno copy

 

[JimT]

Theyre still selling the old inventory as far as i can tell. Im going to buy a few different guns just to support them not necessarily because theyre being made there. Had one about 6mo ago and it was still a brno copy

And here I thought you were going to tell me they were going to be making 550 actions on CNC machines in Clinton country!!!

 

[Walt Krafft]

And here I thought you were going to tell me they were going to be making 550 actions on CNC machines in Clinton country!!!

That's the plan from what I understand.

 

[mensajd]

if the 40-xb were custom quality, if the metal and stock work from their custom shop were as good as that performed by some of the members here, if they still made the xp-100, then I'd be an enthusiastic customer. None of those are true.