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well i got a new build, but what now?

OK guys I need some advice. I wanna build a 600 to 1000 yard paper puncher, just to get out and have fun with. I talked to a guy that has a 243 ack. imp. and he said this round works really well. But my problem is that im not too farmiliar with the ack. imp. cartridges. The guy told me that I could shoot standard 243 rounds in a 243 ack. imp. rifle to fire form the cases. Is this true? If not how do I get the brass. What kind of barrel works best with this cartridge?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks
 
When a cartridge is Ackley Improved means it takes a standard cartridge, like a .243 and it adds a 40 degree shoulder and takes out some of the body taper, thus creating more case capacity. The way you form this case is simply by shooting a .243 round in an Ackley chamber and voila, you have an Ackley case.

I played around with Ackley cases, but you need a fireforming load, and when all your brass is fired, then you will need a new load since you added case capacity. But don't worry, you can find a good fireforming load that you can shoot matches with, once all brass has been fireformed, go back and work up another load.

The benefits: More case capacity and more stable brass; brass doesn't stretch so much because of the sharper shoulder, so very little brass trimming if any.

The drawbacks: For target shooting, I think the 243 Ackley Improved is too overbore, meaning you will have a short barrel life, and since much of that barrel life will be spent fireforming and working up loads, I think even a "straight" 243 would be better. A 6BR or 6BR improved cartridge would be even better, there is also the 6x47 Lapua and the 6XC, any of these would be a better choice that the 243 Ackley because of barrel life, and they are super accurate too!

If you are not totally set on a 6mm, then for 600 to 1000, I would get a 6.5mm, I really like my 6.5 x 47 Lapua, it has great ballistics and it's very accurate, and barrel life is excellent.

As far as barrel goes, I would recommend a 1:8" twist shooting heavy bullets. I shoot Kriegers, but there are other good ones out there too.
 
OK well that helps a lot. Now about the 6.5X47 lapua, is there factory ammo, if not where do I get brass. Everyone that talks about this cartridge loves it. Can I use my factory rem. 700 action? what bolt face do I use? What about barrel length and twist if I go with this cartridge. I know it seems like a lot, but im new to the "full blown custom rifles" and I really wanna build one. LOL All advise is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.
 
do a search on the 6.5x47 and you will find enough info to read for a week. IMHO it would be a better choice than the 243AI. Lee
 
OK I have done a lot of reading on this cartridge. And from what I have read, I think that this would be a good choice; because I have read that you can take a factory 308 rifle and change the barrel to a 6.5X47 lapua and start shooitng. IF this is true then I am already ahead because I am Using a rem. 700 sps varmint in 308 to build off of. Everyone states that the bolt face is the same on both calibers, and that the 6.5X47 will feed just fine from 308 magazines.

Any advise...................?
 
You got it! Yes, they both use the same bolt face, the "47" feeds great from a 308 magazine.

You can get factory ammo, but I think handloading is a better option. You can get some brass and bullets from www.grafs.com , I use 139gr. Lapua Scenars in mine and they shoot great, very consistent bullets, I shoot them from 300 yards out to 1000 yards. I have used Reloader 17 up until now, but I'm testing VV N550 and I think it's going to work as well. Those two powders will get you in the 2900+ fps. range with a 28"+ barrel.

This is what mine can do with Lapua brass, CCI 450 primers, and 139 Scenars at 300 yards!
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/04/erik-cortina-breaks-300-yard-f-class-record-with-6-5x47-lapua/

Build one, learn to shoot it, and enjoy it!

If you need any more help on this caliber, feel free to PM me or email me, I'll aswer any questions you may have to the best of my abilities.
 
The great part about the improved cases is you can buy the parent case at any hardware or gunshop in a pinch and just shoot the rifle with good accuracy and fieform them while you are having fun.Now if you run out of some of the exotic benchrest rounds or forget them at home you are sunk.I would opt for the AI. Now if it is a bench gun well you will be handloading anyways,so dont forget those impossible to find rounds at home and enjoy.
 
The trick with any ackley cartridge is to not load it hot but conservative to enjoy the benefit of slow to no brass growth.I chambered for the 22-250AI just to stop the fast growing 22-250 case's.
 
If you really want to have some fun shooting, just use your SPS 308. Throw a bi-pod and scope on it and go find some NRA mid-range prone matches in your area. Your already set up for F-T/R class.

Don't underestimate what a good 308 can do. I get beat by them all the time. Once you a little further along in your long-range shooting you can decide what you want to do.

Mike
 
The 6.5X47 is a great round, though I have heard more than once they can be a bit tough to tune.

There are other really good options as well, so if you are open minded and have the time, look around a bit and really educate yourself before making any choices. The cartridge guides are a great place to start, as they will give you an idea of the pro's and con's and also the capabilities of many of the rounds.

As for AI, they are cool as they are different and do give a bit more velocity and less stretching in some cases, but at the cost of case forming. I would prefer a round that has an improved shoulder angle right from the start, as you won't need to fire-form.

Now for other capable rounds to have a look at: the .308, you already have one and it is capable of reaching out a ways and being a lot of fun and accurate. Any of the other .308 based rounds: .260, .260AI, 7mm-08, 7mm-08AI, .25 Souper (308 necked to .25cal), ,243, .243AI, .308AI. They are all decent rounds, and can be formed from .243 or .308 Lapua brass as well. They all have ups and downs, so do some research. The 260 and 7mm-08 can both be very accurate rounds and can be made faster with an AI shoulder. They are also easier on barrels than a .243 or .243AI.

Then you have the 6.5 Creedmore, another good round, though the brass is better if formed from Lapua brass, as the Hornady brass is soft so I am told.
There are also the BR rounds, the 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6 BRX, 6BR-DX, 6BR-BS, and you can also use any of these as a 6.5mm, a 7mm, a .25, even a .22 or .20 or .30 if you want. The .30BR is usually used for short range stuff, but I have read of it doing very well at 600yds.

There is a plethora of good rounds available to reach out to 600-1000yds. Just take some time, look around, educate yourself as much as you can on the pro's and con's of each of them and decide what you want. In the mean time, enjoy the .308 you have. It's plenty capable of reaching out there, and is also great for learning to read the wind. You can also perfect your loading skills as well, as long-range shooting accuracy relies a lot on good loading technique.

And don't get hung up on any one round right away. Keep an open mind and see what you think is going to work best for you. Also remember to consider cost of components, barrel life, ease of finding components such as brass, bullets and powder, and also whether or not loading dies are available or if they will need to be custom. Though with many rounds, such as a 6.5BR, you can use a 6BR die with bushings for a 6.5mm. Some rounds can be loaded in this manner, others require custom dies, so just be conscious of these things when looking at a round. Remember all the costs involved and you will be much happier in the end.

And building a rifle with a round that is easy on barrels is also a good way to start as well. If the barrel is toast in 1200rds, it's not going to be much fun as you will likely be just getting it dialed in and used to shooting at 1000yds and having fun, and now it's toast and you need a barrel. Kinda puts a damper on things for a bit until the new $600 barrel is ready. And it gets expensive as well. ;) Not to mention many smiths are backed several weeks most of the time, so it's not something you get done on your day off either.

Hope this helps

Kenny
 
One more thing, I didn't even put a dent in the list of rounds that are capable of accuracy at 1000yds. There are still plenty more, so don't think that's all there is to choose from. ;D

Kenny
 
Erik Cortina said:
It's going to be hard to find a better candidate than the 6.5x47 Lapua for what he wants to do!

I'm not saying it will be. Only that it doesn't hurt to know about the capabilities of some of the other options available before committing to anything.

The 6.5X47 Lapua is a good round. But I'm not positive that it's the best round for 1000yd shooting for fun, or the best round for everybody in every situation. I still think there are other options out there that are at least as good and may have a few benefits as well in certain situations.
If he decides it is what will work best for him in his unique circumstances, than it is what it is. But it's hard to just pick a round and tell someone that's what they need just because it does the job well.

Everybody has there own circumstances and what will work best for them. I know a guy who ended up going with a .308 based round as he could use Winchester brass and it was available locally. There are always reasons we can't foresee that are unique to each situation and sometimes they dictate what someone will use. Yes, the 6.5X47 Lapua was considered by the fellow I know, but he went with something that fit his circumstances better.

Kenny

It never hurts to be educated on something before you make a decision, that's all I'm trying to say. ;)
 
kenny, very well said and thanks for the input. though you are right i am not dead set on a cartridge yet. i want something that i can take deer with a 500 or maybe 600 yards, but i can still punch paper and ring some steel with at 900 and 1000 yards. i CAN do this with my 308, for example, i took a doe the second week of gun season at 537 yards and it just crumbled her. thats with a factory remington 700 sps varmint, a bsa 6-24x44 scope and hand loaded hornady 165 gr. a max.

but here is my problem. i was shot in the face in 2007 with a 243 in a hunting accident. now i am blind in my right eye. i have tried shooting left handed but i just cant seem to be able to do it. so i have to shoot right handed and lean over and look with my left eye.
therefor recoil is kind of an issue. im looking for a good long range cartridge that doesnt have a lot of recoil. the weight of the gun is not a big issue, but i dont want a 20 pound rifle to haul around.

so now i am kind of thinking about keeping the 308 and just getting an aftermarket barrel maybe a muzzle break, and a new stock. anybody on here know the average barrel life of a 308 with medum handloads? my loads are not real hot but not weak neither. also how much recoil is reduced with a muzzle break?

thanks guys
 
Barrel life on a .308 I believe is around 5000 rounds, maybe more. Not real sure, but I know they are hard to kill for sure.

Very sorry to hear of the accident and just glad to even be talking to you. Thankfully someone was on your side and you are still here to have this conversation!

With the recent developments and now knowing recoil is such an issue, the 6.5X47 might be the best option after all. I don't think they have too much recoil, and although I'm not sure of their effective range on deer either, I think it will do what you want. There are still other options, so if you want to look around, it's definitely still worthwhile. But, the 6.5X47 does seem to fit the bill in a lot of areas. Though many other rounds will still work just as well when paired with an effective brake.

The brake on the .308 should help a bit, though I believe they reduce the recoil more when used with higher velocity rounds. But it will help anyway. I think it will reduce a .308 by maybe 25%, but I'm not real sure. They will cut some of the bigger rounds by a good amount though, it just depends on the brake and the round used.
The only brake I have experience with is on my uncles 300RUM. It has about as much recoil as a 7.5lb 30-06 with the brake, maybe even a bit less, and it just plain hurts without it. So much I refuse to ever fire it again without a brake, and I'm no recoil sissy by far. But "enjoyable shooting" doesn't involve blurred vision, a massive bruise on the shoulder and being sore for 3 days after shooting 3 rounds, at least not in my book. ;)

Good luck in your search. I hope you find what your looking for.

Kenny
 
hey man thanks for the help, all of you guys THANK YOU. just one question. if i decide to go with the 6.5x47L does it have the punch or ballistics to bring down deer at say 500 yards, if the shot is place where it needs to be. i would not dare take the risk of wounding an animal. if i dont know for sure i can make the shot i wont take it. but before i do make the decision, i would want to know that the bullet will do its job when it gets there. what do you guys think ???
 
Yes, the 6.5x47 Lapua actually has plenty of punch to take deer out to about 700 yards with a well placed shot. Depending on the altitude where you hunt, maybe a little further.
 
ok well i think i might just try the 6.5x47L and see how things work out. and then if i dont like it, i can always switch it out later on. thanks guys for all of your help and advice. ill let ya know when i get it done.

thanks Mark
 
one thing i think you should know if you have a buget.......6.5 x 47 L redding dies $200 for types s fl , $240 for type s neck and $100 for brass.......

it is a really good choice and i belive you will be happy with it........ but start-up cost hurts the pocket

Ron
 

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