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Weird primer strikes

^^^^^^^^ Agreed.
If your bolt face and firing pin have been overhauled and given the proper clearances, the CCI 400's will give you no problems
Have loaded many hundreds of CCI 400 primers in a gas gun ( not comparing apples to apples) never an issue with CCI primers.. Still buying them when available. Just looking back I opened a pack of 100 yesterday price was $ 3.99. Those were the good days.

Everyone have a great day.!:)
 
6 Dasher. New Alpha brass, CCI400 primers. (can't find any 450's)
31.3 Varget, Berger 105 Hybrids.

2nd time this has happened. Today, the first 3 rounds had a heavy primer strike, but all normal after that. No pressure signs & load is accurate at 300yds ( less than 1/2 moa)

The case on the right is in question. It looks like a complete puncture, but it isn't.

Powder charges are consistent, under 10 ES & SD. Seating depths are consistent as is neck tension.

This has me baffled.View attachment 1547270View attachment 1547269
Make sure you are loading the bullets a little past jam point to ensure the brass isn’t pushed forward too far on primer strike. This also ensures good formation of the new brass to the chamber.
Dave
 
6 Dasher. New Alpha brass, CCI400 primers. (can't find any 450's)
31.3 Varget, Berger 105 Hybrids.

2nd time this has happened. Today, the first 3 rounds had a heavy primer strike, but all normal after that. No pressure signs & load is accurate at 300yds ( less than 1/2 moa)

The case on the right is in question. It looks like a complete puncture, but it isn't.

Powder charges are consistent, under 10 ES & SD. Seating depths are consistent as is neck tension.

This has me baffled.View attachment 1547270View attachment 1547269
I had the same problem with my new Alpha brass with CCI-400 in my .308. I took 10 of my Alpha brass to fire in order to measure their case volumes before I started any load development. I did load them the same as I've done with my Lapua brass that give me good results. Out of the 10 I had 3 pierced primers and the rest looked fine. I've never had this happen before.

Beforehand, I had read on Alpha's website that there has been this issue with some primers and the thinking was that it had something to do with the larger flash holes. And as I think about that, that makes some sense to me as a larger flash hole with the small primers with thinner cups is force back quicker with more pressure against the firing pin.

I've got some CCI-450's which shouldn't have this issue and I'll try Federal 205's to see how they hold up. Guess I'll see and report back. :)
 
There are 2 contributors to this. Weak ignition and firing pin diameter. What you have is primer cratering which happens when the pressure inside of the primer pushes the firing pin back into the bolt and tries to shear itself off on the firing pin hole. More energy creates a deeper indention which is harder to push back, a smaller diameter pin reduces surface area to push on. PSI. A .060" firing pin has almost half the pressure pushing it back as an .080 pin does. Clearance does not really play a role here, its just the pin tip diameter. While experimenting with springs that were too light we had bad cratering. I turned down just the very end of the pin so the guidance was till there but the part of the pin the primer sees was smaller. Cratering was cured even though the clearance between the pin tip and hole was .012"
 
There are 2 contributors to this. Weak ignition and firing pin diameter. What you have is primer cratering which happens when the pressure inside of the primer pushes the firing pin back into the bolt and tries to shear itself off on the firing pin hole. More energy creates a deeper indention which is harder to push back, a smaller diameter pin reduces surface area to push on. PSI. A .060" firing pin has almost half the pressure pushing it back as an .080 pin does. Clearance does not really play a role here, its just the pin tip diameter. While experimenting with springs that were too light we had bad cratering. I turned down just the very end of the pin so the guidance was till there but the part of the pin the primer sees was smaller. Cratering was cured even though the clearance between the pin tip and hole was .012"
This mean we don't need to bush the firing pin hole, yes?
 
Well, if you want to turn them down you do. The point of bushing the hole is to create guidance that the Remington design lacks. So when you turn the pin down on a Remington you create even more slop than the original design. Bushing it guides the pin for its full travel. Thats a good thing. At least if the jobs done right and doesnt create bind. If the original design was guided with enough pin trap to allow just turning down .030 of the pin tip then no you wouldnt need to bush it. And yes if the only goal was to stop cratering you could just turn down the pin on a Remington or Remington style ignition. But that slop would harm accuracy and most likely cause failure of the pin tip due to the lack of guidance in that design.
 
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Seating depth is good. I don't see how FP protusion could be intermittent.
It only happens on the first few rounds.
Do you have a small firing pin or large firing pin? Remington 7 1/2 will also work better. Same cup thickness, .025" as CCI 450 while 400 has a .020" thickness cup.
 
Well, if you want to turn them down you do. The point of bushing the hole is to create guidance that the Remington design lacks. So when you turn the pin down on a Remington you create even more slop than the original design. Bushing it guides the pin for its full travel. Thats a good thing. At least if the jobs done right and does create bind. If the original design was guided with enough pin trap to allow just turning down .030 of the pin tip then no you wouldnt need to bush it. And yes if the only goal was to stop cratering you could just turn down the pin on a Remington or Remington style ignition. But that slop would harm accuracy and most likely cause failure of the pin tip due to the lack of guidance in that design.
I agree with everything you said in the last couple of posts but I think it might be interpreted to mean that clearance has no fault in cratering. I think we both agree that it does by allowing brass of the primer to flow, weakening the cup which will often lead to blanking primers. Otherwise, I think we're on the same page and agree, possibly on all of it but just clarifying what I think you mean is all. I'll bring up what I mentioned in a previous point as an example, where I stated that Savage bolt heads often have a little concave area around the pin and that simply making it flat but no bushing or other fitment changes stops the cratering as well. The concave area I'm referring to is quite a bit bigger than the fp tip diameter but that flow or stretch weakens and slightly thins the cup around the fp strike, promoting craters and blanking.
 
????? Don't know.
Remove the firing and measure. .062" is small. I had the same issues on my Dasher back in early 90's. I had the bolt bushed on my Remington 700 action and all my troubles went away including the flyers. Actually my troubles really went away when I started shooting a 6X47 Lapua, LOL :cool:
 
6 Dasher. New Alpha brass, CCI400 primers. (can't find any 450's)
31.3 Varget, Berger 105 Hybrids.

2nd time this has happened. Today, the first 3 rounds had a heavy primer strike, but all normal after that. No pressure signs & load is accurate at 300yds ( less than 1/2 moa)

The case on the right is in question. It looks like a complete puncture, but it isn't.

Powder charges are consistent, under 10 ES & SD. Seating depths are consistent as is neck tension.

This has me baffled.View attachment 1547270View attachment 1547269
Is there scuffing on side of the firing pin? On my Rem 700 the part of the FP assembly that sticks out of the back of the shroud when cocked shows a lot of scuffing due to rubbing. It hasn't been a problem, but I know a competitive shooter would fix it.
 
Is there scuffing on side of the firing pin? On my Rem 700 the part of the FP assembly that sticks out of the back of the shroud when cocked shows a lot of scuffing due to rubbing. It hasn't been a problem, but I know a competitive shooter would fix it.
No, it looks good.
 
I agree with everything you said in the last couple of posts but I think it might be interpreted to mean that clearance has no fault in cratering. I think we both agree that it does by allowing brass of the primer to flow, weakening the cup which will often lead to blanking primers. Otherwise, I think we're on the same page and agree, possibly on all of it but just clarifying what I think you mean is all. I'll bring up what I mentioned in a previous point as an example, where I stated that Savage bolt heads often have a little concave area around the pin and that simply making it flat but no bushing or other fitment changes stops the cratering as well. The concave area I'm referring to is quite a bit bigger than the fp tip diameter but that flow or stretch weakens and slightly thins the cup around the fp strike, promoting craters and blanking.
Cant comment on the savage issue. But I have eliminated cratering by reducing pin size while also increasing clearance by a huge amount. So no I do not think that clearance plays a role. Even when you have a lot like .010" thats only .005" per side and the cup just is not so elastic that it will flow into such a small gap. The pin itself has to be pushed back to shear the cup.
 
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Cant comment on the savage issue. But I have eliminated cratering by reducing pin size while also increasing clearance by a huge amount. So no I do not think that clearance plays a role. Even when you have a lot like .010" thats only .005" per side and the cup just is not so elastic that it will flow into such a small gap. The pin itself has to be pushed back to shear the cup.
I'll go back and re-read your posts when I can but what stops the fp from getting pushed back again? Spring pressure and what else? Thanks
 
Energy, which is fall, mass, and spring. Thats how deep the initial dent is. Diameter is the surface area the the pressure can push back on.
Right...with ya on that. Not sure this applies to what you're saying but this isn't hydraulics though. If I hit a nail on the pointy end or the head with the same energy, I believe the same energy gets applied. Not psi but force.
 

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