Weight Sorting brass?

[mao0720]

Im trying to organize my loading table better and figured it would be a good time to weight sort my 308 brass. I have not done this before (gasp!) and had a few questions. How small of groups should I make when weight sorting brass? 1 grain? 1/2 grain? Is it ok to mix headstaps if it they are in the same weight group? The loads are for FT/R and practical rifle matches. Thanks for the input.

 

[coyotekiller82]

From what I hear, most people will go 1 grain increments...this should give you the bulk of your brass within 1 grain of each other. Use all the other brass for practice or fowling shots!

I wouldn't mix headstamps if you're using the brass for matches as overall capacity can vary quite a bit between different manufacturers.

 

[scissorhands]

I recently watch a video, where Stan Pate said Team Savage would weight sort brass and bullets, They then would use the heaviest brass with the lightest bullets and vis-versa.

 

[Terry]

I will answer this as a long range benchrest shooter. For my needs I'll sort the brass, lets say 200 pcs to see what I get. Most will be within 2 grains. The most common I stack in the middle and the lighter to the right, the heavier to the left. I'm looking to make 4 boxes of 50 with the lease deviation per box. Usually the ones in the middle give me two boxes of 50 within 1/2 grain. Sometimes I'll get 4 boxes within 1/2 grain while the overall variations may be 2 grains.

I do not recommend mixing headstamps unless this ammo is PDO, Prairie Dog Only. You can get away with it there.

Best Wishes!

Terry

 

[Shynloco]

Since I use strictly Lapua brass and am in the game for accuracy, I don't even worry about the headstamp part of your question. Speaking from experience, I have found that a box of 100 Lapua .308 pcs will vary by 3 - 3.5 grs. Now I usually break up 100 casings into around 35 casings and then do my thing with careful prep of the brass using what is commonly called Precision Reloading Techniques - translation means I go anal in every detail of brass prep trying to eliminate as many variables as possible. I weigh each and every piece after prep and then again after each cartridge is completed. They are then arranged in weigh order in my ammo box and shot in that order. I also use Lapua brass that is way out of the norm for foulers which don't count in the final shoot anyway. And usually with 35 loaded rds my variance is no more than 1 gr and when I do that with 50 casings the variance is no more than 1.5 grs. Others may think thats nuts and unnecessary, but its what makes me happy and gets me some good little groups.

Alex

 

[jpretle]

Interestingly, I posted a similar ? a while back and the overwhelming response was, doing so was pretty much a waste of time.
What really mattered was case capacity.
I know what you are thinking, and so did I.
So there 'ya go, now you are in a dilemma, or are you??????

 

[mac86951]

I'm sure you'll find articles and controversy over this topic too. I know some great shooters who don't worry about weighing brass and for each one, there's another guy who does.

I got a big box of range brass, i WOULD recommend sorting by head stamp even for Pdog ammo. It will help you predict early failures when the brass is long in life (10+ reloads). Also, different head stamp with same weight just means same total amount of brass, not really where the 'extra' brass is located (web, case wall...).

When you get really serious about brass prep, and measure case wall thickness (watch for case head separation), and neck turn brass, along with primer pocket uniform, flash hole uniform, and all the deburring/chamfering you can handle, I don't think weighing the brass after that is very critical. I may be wrong, however, so I currently weigh my brass, but I don't neck turn yet.

-Mac

 

[nfa1eab]

I shoot LR prone at 600 and 1,000 yards. I don't like to leave variables I can control unworked. There are enough things I can't control such as wind, light, mirage, recoil, variation in firing point, etc. I feel better knowing that I have sorted my brass to within .2 gr. and done the necessary prep work, sorted my bullets for bearing surface length, pointed them all with a Whidden die, and weighed all my charges to the best of my ability. I don't want my ammo to be suspect. If I get a 9 at 6:00 on what I call a good break, I don't want to wonder whether it was ammo, or conditions. Many good shooters may be able to forgo a lot of these steps, but for me, it just eliminates variables. I sort my 1,000 yard 280 Remington brass to within .2 gr. I want them all to be "Brothers".

Ed

 

[bcooney308]

I am close to NF1EAB. I start with 1100 cases, expecting to discard a few.
step 1: run them all through a FL sizing die to straighten any dings in the necks
step 2: trim them all to the same length
step 3: deburr necks, inside and outside
step 4: deburr the inside of the flash hole
step 5: with a tube mic measure neck thickness at several places around the neck,
discarding those with a variation greater than 0.002"
step 6: outside neck turn all of those I've not discarded
At this point I've made them as consistent as I can
step 7: weight sort into groups with a range of 0.2 grains; this only gets done once ever, so tighter ranges don't cost any more time. This is almost certainly
overkill. Can you spell OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE? I can.
bcooney308

 

[jpretle]

bcooney308, they have jackets for guys like you. Generally men in white suits come and take you away.

 

[Lapua40X]

step 1: run them all through a FL sizing die to straighten any dings in the necks
step 2: trim them all to the same length
step 3: deburr and chamfer necks, inside and outside
step 4: run them through a neck sizing die
step 5: clean primer pockets
step 6: deburr the inside of the flash hole
step 7: outside neck turn those that are not within .001 of their brothers
At this point, as long as they're all the same head stamp, I focus on uniformity of powder charge and neck tension. If that's OC, so be it. If not, I'm cured. :

 

[mac86951]

Well, like I mentioned you'll find the guys who are all into preparing their brass, and notice that neither of the above weight them.

Without doing the above, sorting by weight is a way to uniform things like web thickness, or case wall thickness without the extra effort. We found long ago that just because the weight is the same, doesn't mean the case or neck is consistent around the circumference. Once you start measuring all of the above, do you still need brass weight?

-Mac

 

[Heavy barrel]

I mostly shoot Win 308 brass. The rim/head area has a lot of inconsistencies down there. That will have no effect on internal volume, but will effect weight.

 

[Immike]

I clear a table and sort in rows of 1/10 gr. Then put in ammo boxes in this order. I mark the weight range on the outside of the box along with a pair of lines for visual reference. This gives me the closest case to case weight in each row in the box. I used to use loading blocks with each case weight written by each case but I'm on the road to recovery now.

 

[jpretle]

Mike, are you recovering on your own?? or was it induced via group therapy????

 

[Immike]

Mike, are you recovering on your own?? or was it induced via group therapy????

Now that my priorities are Fclass and need 5 time's the cases for matches ,I am overwhelmed by the volume. Good ammo is a big advantage but the wind reading is the key to the game. If you can do both well then you have a handle to grab. I have always said it's the person that can put it all together will win the day.

 

[treeman]

all jokes aside you do want the best ammo you can produce but if you cannot read the wind and mirage to keep in the 10 ring left and right what good is ammo that holds verticle 1/2 x-ring? I do think turned necks and annealing every 3-4 loads does more good than weighing alone. I've never sorted by volume and am getting around 1" or less verticle at 600 yrds ( for 5 shots in calm conditions) maybe some day I'll learn to read the wind. as of yet I haven't learned the whole alphabet yet. just do what evr makes you happy and have fun. that is the point of it all

 

[Joe Maisto]

Interestingly, I posted a similar ? a while back and the overwhelming response was, doing so was pretty much a waste of time.
What really mattered was case capacity.
I know what you are thinking, and so did I.
So there 'ya go, now you are in a dilemma, or are you??????

No dillema here. No matter what game you shoot, BR or 600-1000, you won't feel good about yourself and you will not need to wonder about case prep, if you REMOVE the variables.
Now all thats left is to know how to tune the rifle to the existing temp, watch the flags , and know WHEN to shoot.

 

[amlevin]

I guess if weighing gives one the results they want then weigh away.

To me, weight only seems to have a major flaw. Too many assumptions.

Are all the case dimension consistent? Or is more brass in one case in the case head and the other has a thicker case wall? I guess an argument could be made that these will average out.

I tend to believe that the only true way to determine case uniformity would be to measure it's volume.

Some like to use water, some powder. Both time consuming but to my mind far more revealing than just weight.

 

[Ackman]

Case weight is only the 1st tare step of the truth.....

+15 years of segregating brass by volume, and not once have I ever seen the case weights of a given brass lot fallow a true linear pattern with the actual volume. And many are not even close to a same pattern.
Sure wish they would... it would make my life a whole lot simpler !-!

That's my experience too. Doesn't matter though, some people are convinced and will argue this to death. What's funny is sorting new untouched brass with the idea it's gonna help accuracy. With one 223 headstamp, the heaviest case also had the most internal volume.....these were fully prepped (fireformed/trimmed/turned) cases.