Bullet Sorting

[johara1]

@johara1 @WIB3

Would either or both of you mind sharing what tools you use for bullet measuring.

Thanks
JP

I got one from Tubb years ago and one from a guy at Williamsport...... both are the same with a granite surface plate and I use good dial indicators on them. I don't know who makes them now... jim

 

[johara1]

That is one way to see it, but I think it is more likely that the ogive of every bullet is not as conically perfect as we would like.

I'm not complaining about .0005 variance of mass produced bullets. IMO that is pretty amazing. And given their performance I'm still the weakest link.

Joe

If you turn the without taking them out of the die you will engrave them, if they have lube on them or dirt you get a different reading and if you hold them too long you get a different reading and the worse thing dropping the top die on the bullet you made junk...... jim

 

[WIB3]

I got one from Tubb years ago and one from a guy at Williamsport...... both are the same with a granite surface plate and I use good dial indicators on them. I don't know who makes them now... jim

I actually have 2. They are both made by John Hoover. One uses a granite stand and the other one is his meplat trimmer.

 

[WIB3]

.0005” seems extreme, but if you sort 1000 VT 103’s you might have 3 piles. If you sort 1000 sierras you will be lucky to stop at 6-8. Just remember, bore bearing surface directly impacts velocity. The goal of everyone here is to put them all in the same hole regardless of the distance.

 

[ridgeway]

There is more to it than sorting. Nothing wrong with sorting in .001" increments. Just look at it this way... The more ducks you have aligned the better, right? Whether it's right or wrong... If it makes you feel better, it is better. Alot of this stuff has a mental side to it, lol. BTW, I sort .001" increments and shoot Hybrids.

 

[Jet]

To the OP: I haven't found weight sorting to be beneficial. To keep things simple, sort base to ogive and keep your batches in .001" groups. Once that is done do an OAL sort and separate in .002" piles. There are many other things you can measure but it can drive you insane. MY #1 goal in sorting is to find the 1 or 2 bullets in your box of 500 or more than will ruin your group.

Bullet sorting is a PITA and I have yet to meet the precision shooter who gets excited about the prospect of spending time doing it. Numerous measurements can be taken, some more important than others. The goal is to batch our bullets into sub lots where they are as close to being identical as possible.

Good shooting

Rich

 

[johara1]

Show me on paper it makes a difference. We can talk all day about who is the most anal. Lets see the proof on targets.

I did, check the records..... jim

 

[golong]

.0005” seems extreme, but if you sort 1000 VT 103’s you might have 3 piles. If you sort 1000 sierras you will be lucky to stop at 6-8. Just remember, bore bearing surface directly impacts velocity. The goal of everyone here is to put them all in the same hole regardless of the distance.

I don't keep a log of my sorting, but if memory serves correct 1000 Sierra in 0.0005 increments usually gives me 2 really good bins that are around 60% of the lot. Next 30% is in 2 or 3 bins, with the stragglers in another 2-4. By out to 4 I am talking as few as 1 bullet in a bin. Berger is about 50% in 2, 30% in the next 2, and then the rest in another 4+, where the + is as few as a single bullet.

 

[johara1]

Can you share that lot number big guy??
My Sierras have never been that close but as I said earlier my tools aren’t as good as yours.

I have no idea on the lot number, but I have a bud that sorted a bunch and his were very uniform too. these are the pointed ones now the older ones were an other story both the 110's and 107's are really good now..... jim

 

[WIB3]

.0005” seems extreme, but if you sort 1000 VT 103’s you might have 3 piles. If you sort 1000 sierras you will be lucky to stop at 6-8. Just remember, bore bearing surface directly impacts velocity. The goal of everyone here is to put them all in the same hole regardless of the distance.

 

[WIB3]

Show me on paper it makes a difference. We can talk all day about who is the most anal. Lets see the proof on targets.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

All i know is that if you were to sort this box just bought 2 weeks ago just by length you couldnt shoot a match unless you used 2 or 3 lengths

 

[johara1]

Ya WIB3 , I like that kind of proof..... I think I had shot nine 100's one year with sorted and trimmed and pointed bullets, with a light gun. A guy told once don't do it it and it makes you easier to beat..... nice groups .....hard work pays off..... jim

 

[johara1]

Dusty, I don't care who's bullets you measure by length they are never the same but I trim them to the same length. Bearing surface and base to ogive I can't fix.... and I use a lot of long range bullets from good bullet makers.... jim

 

[Terry]

Now show the ones that are .001 longer or shorter. Both Targets side by side shot on the same day in the same conditions.

 

[johara1]

Now show the ones that are .001 longer or shorter. Both Targets side by side shot on the same day in the same conditions.

Better yet you prove that it doesn't work..... You spend the money to prove it ...... jim

 

[johara1]

Now show the ones that are .001 longer or shorter. Both Targets side by side shot on the same day in the same conditions.

I see by that statement you don't have a clue on sorting bullets, overall length can be fixed.... jim

 

[Bugs]

I really think the forum boss needs to establish some kind of a mechanism where we can all place bets on the number of posts it will take before a thread such as this turns into a pissin' match.

 

[BartsBullets]

Sort until the cows come home! Guess what it’s not going to hurt a thing! Like @ridgeway said if it makes you feel better, it will probably help.

For the record I shoot a lot of 600 Benchrest and a little 1000 yard Benchrest. It goes without saying these are my custom bullets.

For myself all I do is sort bullets in piles by overall length say within .003. I may shoot them like that or I may trim the meplats back to the shortest overall length in the batch. No sorting by ogive, no pointing bullets and no weighing of bullets.

Ogive sorting
I don’t sort by ogive because typically my bullet are +|- .001 either way. Regardless of differences in bearing surface the seater stem WILL seat all of them to the same spot. Had to test some bullets the other day and they were slightly shorter than usual. Seated some that I had on the loading table and seated some of the test batch. The difference between the two was .009 on bearing surface. Measured the loaded rounds, One from each batch on my ogive checker, and they were seated to the same .001.

Pointing
I did a lot of experimenting with pointing. MY conclusion was the risk and possibly screwing up a bullet far exceeded the benefit of a slightly higher BC. I’m more concerned with the BC being the same from bullet to bullet and not worried about increasing it.

Weighing bullets in my opinion is not necessary. I see no loss in accuracy with bullets that vary by 3 tenths. But then again it won’t hurt anything either.

Now we are down to the prove it part! One target is nice but what about for the year?

My agg for 17 matches (136 targets) 2.270.
Shot the smallest group of the year .566
Shoot the smallest 2 Gun of the year 1.633 (8 Target). Potential record.
Shot the highest LG score 199 with 1.523 agg(Potential record).
Shot two Smallest LG aggs of the year.
Shot the 2 highest 2 Gun score Aggs of the year.

Won
5 LG Score matches
6 LG Group matches
7 LG overalls
2 HG Score
5 HG Group
3 HG overall
8 2 Gun Aggs
4 2 Gun Overall score
8 Overall 2 Guns. (The most in the IBS)
48 Wins

Now the 1000 yard guys will say that’s ok for 600 but not 1000. As far as 1000 yards Shot 1 match, the 1000 yard Nationals this year. Came in second in HG group. Would have been 4th in 2 Gun overall group (if they calculated it) so groups weren’t the problem.

That’s my take on sorting and those are my results.

Bart

 

[KenOath]

I sort BTO +-.001”.. It makes me feel better..