Web, Pencil or Swirl flame for annealing?

[C Valentine]

Going to have a go at the poor mans method...socket, drill (in my case a 100 rpm lathe) and torch. Have the Tempilaq, socket etc. but the torch I have has a web flame. Is this okay or should I get one of the others. The Swirl flame looks interesting.

 

[Delaware_Ken]

I just might know someone who has a Bench Source Annealer that you could borrow.

 

[spclark]

I'd try it before going to a point-type burner. The swirl gives a more diffuse flame pattern. Pay attention to how it's aimed, try to keep the case body below the shoulder from heating too far down the case wall.

With a case chucked in a lathe the horizontal orientation makes careful holder depth necessary; in a drill it's easy 'cause it's held at an angle.

 

[amlevin]

I've used the "swirl flame" and pencil flamed torches while annealing by the "socket in a drill" method.

Both worked fine for me. I just have to adjust how I hold the case shoulder/neck in the flame to get the entire surface washed with flame but other than that, heat is heat, as long as you have enough of it.

For a socket I found that the heavier Impact Sockets work a lot better than thin-wall. They absorb more heat. If doing a lot of cases it might be a good idea to have two sockets. One for annealing and the other cooling off.

 

[C Valentine]

Hey DK, I'm sort of like a junkyard dog...I'll just skulk around until you find something newer, better, more efficient and decide to upgrade, then I'll slink in and grab your scraps! ;D ;D Cya at the range...

SP,
Yeah I am wondering about the horizontal orientation on the lathe...just have to try it and see how the indicator reacts on the case body compared to vertical in a drill. Easier to control the RPMs on a lathe, but I guess I can always make a stop for the drill trigger.

 

[Joe R]

I'm not sure it would make a difference as long as you can aim it at the junction of the neck and shoulder. You don't need tempilaq, count 1,001, 1,002... 1,005 done. None of the annealers use temperature sensors, they all use time. Go to YouTube watch some and look at the time at the bottom.

 

[Juma]

Go pencil. Got both i.e. broader and pencil but the latter directs a concentrated flame/heat which is ideally what you want. For 223 count up to 5 then drop gently onto old towel.

 

[CatShooter]

Go pencil. Got both i.e. broader and pencil but the latter directs a concentrated flame/heat which is ideally what you want. For 223 count up to 5 then drop gently onto old towel.

I put a sheet of aluminum foil on the towel to keep it from getting burned.

 

[Joe R]

Xhuntress said:
poor mans method...socket, drill

I'm not a poor man and I use the socket & drill method. Actually, I would call it "the smart person's method" because IMO it is simply the best method.

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[CatShooter]

Xhuntress said:
poor mans method...socket, drill

I'm not a poor man and I use the socket & drill method. Actually, I would call it "the smart person's method" because IMO it is simply the best method.

Kindest regards,

Joe

What Joe said...

Now, if I could only find a decent hand drill that was light and the batteries lasted long enough to anneal for a few hours

 

[C Valentine]

Actually, chucking the extended socket in my woodworking lathe worked really well. Was a little worried that the horizontal position may let too much heat go to the base of the case, or that the case would work its way out of the socket, but it didn't happen. My lathe only goes down to 100 RPM but that seems to be okay. Put a large, lipped side panel from an old desktop computer on the ways as a tray and I just flip the case out of the socket and onto the metal tray with a pair of wooden toaster tongs.

As for the flame, I think I am going to go get a pencil flame. The web flame is a bit too unruly and imprecise for the small .223 cases.

 

[spclark]

Now, if I could only find a decent hand drill that was light and the batteries lasted long enough to anneal for a few hours

Yeah... battery-powered isn't the best choice for this operation.

I use a 1/2" Milwaukee Magnum, weighs close to 6 pounds but balances well. Plugged into a variable AC supply I can throttle it down to ~ 75-100 rpm & just use the trigger for on/off though it's pretty easy to just tip a case out into my NECO sieve then drop in the next one into the deep socket with the drill still spinning.

I'd probably have started with a lathe too (maybe with some kind of pusher to eject cases) if I had one....

 

[CatShooter]

Now, if I could only find a decent hand drill that was light and the batteries lasted long enough to anneal for a few hours

Yeah... battery-powered isn't the best choice for this operation.

I use a 1/2" Milwaukee Magnum, weighs close to 6 pounds but balances well. Plugged into a variable AC supply I can throttle it down to ~ 75-100 rpm & just use the trigger for on/off though it's pretty easy to just tip a case out into my NECO sieve then drop in the next one into the deep socket with the drill still spinning.

I'd probably have started with a lathe too (maybe with some kind of pusher to eject cases) if I had one....

I go through them like tissues at a funeral... the B&D I have now has the batteries getting to the point where they do 1/4th as many as then did when new.... maybe 50 or 60... and I usually do 400 to 1000 cases (thank God for TV at the loading bench!!)... so I have to do it in spurts.

I am thinking of getting a 12 volt 200 rpm motor on ebay and a 12 volt power source and building something - cuz I don't need the high torque of a driver, and I am tired of buying a new one every 4 months.

 

[spclark]

I am thinking of getting a 12 volt 200 rpm motor on ebay and a 12 volt power source and building something - cuz I don't need the high torque of a driver, and I am tired of buying a new one every 4 months.

Uh, yeah I can see where that'd get kinda tiresome. Had that Milwaukee for about 30 years now, new cord every ten years....

Point your browser at this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-RPM-115-VOLT-AC-1-10-HP-GEARMOTOR-MERKLE-KORFF-5-1219-/380922196537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b0bb7239

- 110 VAC & a good price. Just needs an adapter to fit the shaft to your case holder-of choice.

 

[amlevin]

Now, if I could only find a decent hand drill that was light and the batteries lasted long enough to anneal for a few hours

Light and long lasting batteries are mutually exclusive. Why not take a nice light cordless that fits your needs then modify it. Replace the battery with a power cord that runs to a Power supply. A simple transformer that provides the proper voltage, a bridge rectifier capable of handling the current, and that's all you need. Will need to be larger than a "Wall Wart" but there are plenty of inexpensive options available online.

Can also be as simple as a small motorcycle battery (If your cordless is in the 6v or 12v range) with a charger attached so it can catch up during "pauses for the cause".

 

[CatShooter]

I am thinking of getting a 12 volt 200 rpm motor on ebay and a 12 volt power source and building something - cuz I don't need the high torque of a driver, and I am tired of buying a new one every 4 months.

Uh, yeah I can see where that'd get kinda tiresome. Had that Milwaukee for about 30 years now, new cord every ten years....

Point your browser at this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-RPM-115-VOLT-AC-1-10-HP-GEARMOTOR-MERKLE-KORFF-5-1219-/380922196537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b0bb7239

- 110 VAC & a good price. Just needs an adapter to fit the shaft to your case holder-of choice.

That motor is tooooo awkward to hand hold. Tooooo noisy (it'll drown out the TV), and who needs 1/10 of a horsepower to spin a case.

I am thinking more along something like this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6V-DC-200RPM-High-Torque-Electric-Gear-Box-Motor-/361171264110?

---

Now, if I could only find a decent hand drill that was light and the batteries lasted long enough to anneal for a few hours

Light and long lasting batteries are mutually exclusive. Why not take a nice light cordless that fits your needs then modify it. Replace the battery with a power cord that runs to a Power supply. A simple transformer that provides the proper voltage, a bridge rectifier capable of handling the current, and that's all you need. Will need to be larger than a "Wall Wart" but there are plenty of inexpensive options available online.

Can also be as simple as a small motorcycle battery (If your cordless is in the 6v or 12v range) with a charger attached so it can catch up during "pauses for the cause".

I know about the battery limits, but I would at least like them to supply the use that they were designed to supply...

... these are soooo cheap that they loose their capacity to be recharged to 100% after maybe 20 or 30 hours - when it was new, I could do 400 or so cases before it needed to be recharged, now it is maybe 50 or 60-ish

When the second driver died, I took it apart to see if it could be converted with a outside power source, and the way it was designed, was a mess. It had 3 planetary drives stacked in a row (which was where all the noise comes from), and when I opened the body, I had eleventeen million little gears come out, all loaded with gooey grease.

Putting Humpty Dumpty back together again would have been a walk in the park, compared to this sucka


So, I am gonna buy one of these...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6V-DC-200RPM-High-Torque-Electric-Gear-Box-Motor-/361171264110?

... and fit it in the body of a dead power driver, and hard wire it to a wall wart, and use the on/off switch in the driver... I think it will work out OK.

 

[amlevin]

... and fit it in the body of a dead power driver, and hard wire it to a wall wart, and use the on/off switch in the driver... I think it will work out OK.

Most wall wart's don't put out enough current to run anything requiring any torque, even if it does have a 50:1 reduction or more.

That's why those cheap batteries go bad so quick. They are required to deliver several amperes of current to handle the load for short times. Going strait to a wall wart will require one large enough to supply the same amperage. You won't have a battery inline to supply the extra kick.

 

[CatShooter]

... and fit it in the body of a dead power driver, and hard wire it to a wall wart, and use the on/off switch in the driver... I think it will work out OK.

Most wall wart's don't put out enough current to run anything requiring any torque, even if it does have a 50:1 reduction or more.

That's why those cheap batteries go bad so quick. They are required to deliver several amperes of current to handle the load for short times. Going strait to a wall wart will require one large enough to supply the same amperage. You won't have a battery inline to supply the extra kick.

Yeah... but it doesn't need any torque - it is not driving a screw against 50 inch pounds of resistance.

It is turning a case against 0.0000000000000000000000000003 inch pounds of resistance.

A one amp wart will be fine.

 

[amlevin]

... and fit it in the body of a dead power driver, and hard wire it to a wall wart, and use the on/off switch in the driver... I think it will work out OK.

Most wall wart's don't put out enough current to run anything requiring any torque, even if it does have a 50:1 reduction or more.

That's why those cheap batteries go bad so quick. They are required to deliver several amperes of current to handle the load for short times. Going strait to a wall wart will require one large enough to supply the same amperage. You won't have a battery inline to supply the extra kick.

Yeah... but it doesn't need any torque - it is not driving a screw against 50 inch pounds of resistance.

It is turning a case against 0.0000000000000000000000000003 inch pounds of resistance.

A one amp wart will be fine.

Sorry, brain was still in neutral. It kept thinking like you were planning on using it for case neck turning etc, like I do with mine.

Another cup of coffee will help 8)