Did you check E-Bay? When you find them, they'll have to be shipped in from some island, somewhere.
Wanting to Learn
- Thread starter Bully
- Start date
B Nettesheim
Gold $$ Contributor
If you are willing to learn on your own then you should go for it, some people on here think you need to be a journeyman machinist for the last 150 years to be able to put your own rifle together. We dont live that long and take their negative advice to the trash can. Ive had a few electrican apprentices under me that could be old enough to be my dad and the ones who were willing to learn did just fine, so don't let your age get in the way. You also can make good parts on an old machine it's the machinist not the machine. My advice is to get started somewhere on something
Gunsmiths have to turn out the work to pay the bills. Most don't have a reputation that allows them to invest the time of hours to indicate and true actions, indicate barrels and and clock them to thread and chamber all under .0005" specs and get paid for that time. They know they can't charge for it so they don't and they don't chase that level of perfection. A determined self trained hobby machine tinkerer who won't quit can.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
"Learn on your own" and tear off a finger, an arm, lose an eye, get a few stitches. Yeah, 8000 hour apprenticeship was developed just for shits and giggles by some guy that did it for 150 years. You guys still don't get it. It's not only the machining part, it's the safe operation of machine tools the newbie with no mechanical ability doesn't get "learning on your own". One out of a hundred MAY squeak by but from what's posted here and on other sites the vast MAJORITY will not. I remember the first machinist I worked with on the first day. After introductions he asked me if his eye was straight, the glass one on the left side that was a replacement for the one that took a hot chip. All I can say is GOOD LUCK! You'll need it.
[QUOTE="Hopkins, post: 36947865, member: 1282698" A determined self trained hobby machine tinkerer who won't quit can.[/QUOTE]
After about two thousand hour of 'tinkering' and twenty thousand dollars of buying machinery and tools, with most of the tools/tooling not being needed to begin with....... There is no substitute for quality instruction and hands on experience under the watchful eye on a qualified instructor. Take the CC class. Get your' feet wet', then decide what course of action to take from there. I graduated from MCC Gunsmithing Program 23 yrs ago. When I started, I had 16 yrs of 'job shop' machining experience. You think that wasn't a great benefit to my gunsmithing learning? I could and did grasp the concepts being taught without much difficulty. I was familiar with how to "lay out" a project, which helped immensely with the machining and handwork being taught, and then laying out a stock blank, as we were still taught then how to make rifle and shotgun stocks by hand, from a blank. I still spend some of my time in a 'job shop', CNCs and manual equipment. I'm fortunate to work with another machinist that has about 30yrs experience. Would you seriously think we don't still learn from each other? We're still more likely to go to Machinerys' Handbook or a calculator than U-Tube......... No, you don't need to be a professional machinist to chamber a barrel. But, knowing and understanding the 'basics' of machining principal can only simplify the job. Most probably won't learn the 'basics' in an afternoon.
After about two thousand hour of 'tinkering' and twenty thousand dollars of buying machinery and tools, with most of the tools/tooling not being needed to begin with....... There is no substitute for quality instruction and hands on experience under the watchful eye on a qualified instructor. Take the CC class. Get your' feet wet', then decide what course of action to take from there. I graduated from MCC Gunsmithing Program 23 yrs ago. When I started, I had 16 yrs of 'job shop' machining experience. You think that wasn't a great benefit to my gunsmithing learning? I could and did grasp the concepts being taught without much difficulty. I was familiar with how to "lay out" a project, which helped immensely with the machining and handwork being taught, and then laying out a stock blank, as we were still taught then how to make rifle and shotgun stocks by hand, from a blank. I still spend some of my time in a 'job shop', CNCs and manual equipment. I'm fortunate to work with another machinist that has about 30yrs experience. Would you seriously think we don't still learn from each other? We're still more likely to go to Machinerys' Handbook or a calculator than U-Tube......... No, you don't need to be a professional machinist to chamber a barrel. But, knowing and understanding the 'basics' of machining principal can only simplify the job. Most probably won't learn the 'basics' in an afternoon.
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Learning on your own just means you don't know what you don't know!
You are in the perfect place to find a Heavy 10. Most anything happens will slip the belt. I know that from experience. The Richard Franklin video is worth the money. It is not a cheap hobby. the youtube videos are good too. Not rocket science.PM me your phone and I will talk to you about my experiences. Stephen
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
First I like this! Why couldn't you put a VFD or phase converter in the living room since you've got chips in there anyhow?
This thread has turned to trash. Go ahead and spend $20,000 to start your home shop, what have you achieved? Instead of $500 per barrelled chambered, you will now have spent enough to buy 40 barrels plus. Now if you are doing it for somebody you will have to chamber 80 barrels plus to break even.
Remember the cost of your FFL, utilities, insurance, and consumables is added to that.
This thread has turned to trash. Go ahead and spend $20,000 to start your home shop, what have you achieved? Instead of $500 per barrelled chambered, you will now have spent enough to buy 40 barrels plus. Now if you are doing it for somebody you will have to chamber 80 barrels plus to break even.
Remember the cost of your FFL, utilities, insurance, and consumables is added to that.
This thread has turned to trash. Go ahead and spend $20,000 to start your home shop, what have you achieved? Instead of $500 per barrelled chambered, you will now have spent enough to buy 40 barrels plus. Now if you are doing it for somebody you will have to chamber 80 barrels plus to break even.
Remember the cost of your FFL, utilities, insurance, and consumables is added to that.[/QUOTE]
Butch, and don't forget depreciation on all that was bought. I'm one that's all for someone trying something new but you need to know limitations or at least be able to listen to experiance, I don't know how to fly a plane but I'm not going to buy one because I think I can. but with instructions I'm pretty sure I could learn.
Remember the cost of your FFL, utilities, insurance, and consumables is added to that.[/QUOTE]
Butch, and don't forget depreciation on all that was bought. I'm one that's all for someone trying something new but you need to know limitations or at least be able to listen to experiance, I don't know how to fly a plane but I'm not going to buy one because I think I can. but with instructions I'm pretty sure I could learn.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Yup, just another deep dark hole to pitch your money. Yeah I've done the boats, bass fishing, and all kinds of drag cars, show trucks, and sportscars, I've even spent many thousands chasing a piece of BR wood. Maybe golf will be next. It looks like a snap, just need the Ping Zings I heard.
Butch NO NOT GOLF
Ya'll throw out some big numbers. I have not spent 10,000 yet on a SB 13 and a Bridgeport and all the tooling. Just sold my 13 for more than I paid. Found a 1985 Taiwan Enco 12x36 with a short headstock that I really like for 1700.00. The 6 deer I shot with my first gun didn't have a clue I didn't know what I was doing. My wife is happy I spend my time playing in the garage instead of running the road. Plus I have learned a lot and still learning. Best 10 grand I have ever spent. I am a happy man. Have a great day.
I'm surprised by the negative tones in this thread. Like the o.p., I too would like to learn the art of machining, but I can't dedicate the time an apprenticeship requires. A wife, kids, 8 businesses in 3 states......I don't need another job. Instead, I'm starting community college courses in August to learn the fundamentals of reading prints, metrology, and machine operations. A few hours in the evening a couple of days per week. If everything pans out, I'll buy a mill and lathe.
Many of us can buy any gun we want built by a master gunsmith, but that doesn't provide the same satisfaction as building our own. It makes no financial sense, but what hobby does?
Many of us can buy any gun we want built by a master gunsmith, but that doesn't provide the same satisfaction as building our own. It makes no financial sense, but what hobby does?
hoz53
Gold $$ Contributor
Geez Butch He wouldn't be the first to put his lathe in the house in fact my neighbor has his lathe and mill in there and it was the posters idea to begin with anyway. That answer was a bit of sarcasm on my part. The Guy telling us how brilliant he is and he can't keep metal shavings out of the house.
I've known lots of guys that spend 20,000 PER YEAR in the bars and what do they have to show for it?
Answer--Bad Liver, Beer Belly, paternity suit, Exwife, No Pension
Cost of a machining hobby is peanuts compared to many other things
Oh yeah for a hobbyist no FFL, extra insurance, and the light bill is only 20/month higher. If I had an FFL I'd save $ on the stuff I buy to. Much more than the FFL costs.
Just that I like to do it is enough reason for me to spend the money on it. Another Main reason is I chamber my barrel when I want to not according to someone else's shedule -that in itself is worth the money. My first few experiences with gunsmiths when I was younger waiting long periods of time convinced me I'd either do it myself or it wouldn't get done.
Anyway I know you're a great guy. Just my 2 cents Thanks
Just another who doesn't know what they don't know.....
I think I once read that Emil Koshollek was a confirmed bachelor and kept a lathe in his living room. He made some fine checkered butt plates and grip caps for the famous stockers of the time, 30's and 40's. Alvin Linden was one of his friends.
The thought of having a lathe in the living room has merit but I'd never get away with it under the current rules of engagement.
Everyone has to start somewhere and if that's your wish go for it. Taking a class will likely include lots of class time involving math and safety with a little hands on experience the first semester. In addition you would do well in finding a good machinist to pester and mentor you as well.
I would advise getting some experience with different machines and a good working knowledge of machine practice before diving in too far. In no time you'll be building rifles capable of hitting golf balls at great distance. Bury the clubs in the back yard. It's less stressful that way.
Joe
The thought of having a lathe in the living room has merit but I'd never get away with it under the current rules of engagement.
Everyone has to start somewhere and if that's your wish go for it. Taking a class will likely include lots of class time involving math and safety with a little hands on experience the first semester. In addition you would do well in finding a good machinist to pester and mentor you as well.
I would advise getting some experience with different machines and a good working knowledge of machine practice before diving in too far. In no time you'll be building rifles capable of hitting golf balls at great distance. Bury the clubs in the back yard. It's less stressful that way.
Joe
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