Wanting to Learn

[Wirelessguy2005]

That's not 100% accurate, I purchased a lathe, a few machining manuals, and asked a lot of questions starting about 2 years ago. Now I do my own chamber work as well as making bore guides and a number of other things with my lathe and mill. It's plenty good enough quality for me and others that have seen the work. Your buddy Barry has been at my place and looked at some of my work, he seemed impressed. I know this may be hard too accept for some of those that have been doing machine work for a long time but it is possible to learn manual machining as well as gunsmith work on your own and still produce good quality, it just takes a little time and dedication.

An apprentice machinist needs 8000 hours on a variety of machines to obtain a state certified journeyman's card. The idea that one can buy a couple machines, some tooling, a couple books and view some videos and do PRECISION work, is not valid.

 

[butchlambert]

I think my 10EE Monarch is a very great machine, but it stays in my shop. I take my shoes off before entering the house.

 

[hogpatrol]

That's not 100% accurate, I purchased a lathe, a few machining manuals, and asked a lot of questions starting about 2 years ago. Now I do my own chamber work as well as making bore guides and a number of other things with my lathe and mill. It's plenty good enough quality for me and others that have seen the work. Your buddy Barry has been at my place and looked at some of my work, he seemed impressed. I know this may be hard too accept for some of those that have been doing machine work for a long time but it is possible to learn manual machining as well as gunsmith work on your own and still produce good quality, it just takes a little time and dedication.

How many pieces of scrap? My post may be not as clear as I intended but the idea that you can buy experience is folly and 80% of youtube chamber jobs might get you by but would make any gunsmith or machinist worth his salt, cringe.

I have to give the flyboy a call. Haven't heard from him in a while. Probably blames me for his SML and AR small caliber addictions.

 

[rgc54]

Go for it... in 1989 I got the bug bought a jet 13 x 36 back gear lathe and started making chips learned how to make things true and concentric by constantly checking my work with test indicators . Out grew the jet back gear bought a 13 x 40 standard modern 3 phase much nicer lathe. My chambers are true and on size. Lathe work will challenge you in an enjoyable way. I don't think I could go without one now.

 

[butchlambert]

I know several fellers that chamber their own barrels and win with them. They probably do very little more machining than that Yes they had a lot of OJT. I have a real good buddy that I'm working with. He has a Heavy 10 and a very big hammer. He mainly wants to do muzzle brakes and maybe a few chambers. I think this will be a very trying experience.

 

[hpshooter]

" He has a Heavy 10 and a very big hammer."

Butch,
Is the hammer lead, brass or copper? May make a difference in what gets damaged!

I bet you get him squared away.

 

[butchlambert]

" He has a Heavy 10 and a very big hammer."

Butch,
Is the hammer lead, brass or copper? May make a difference in what gets damaged!

I bet you get him squared away.

With my patience? I think we will get there. This weekend we will take micrometer reading. He thinks his digital Chinese calipers are all he needs.

 

[geo.ulrich]

That's not 100% accurate, I purchased a lathe, a few machining manuals, and asked a lot of questions starting about 2 years ago. Now I do my own chamber work as well as making bore guides and a number of other things with my lathe and mill. It's plenty good enough quality for me and others that have seen the work. Your buddy Barry has been at my place and looked at some of my work, he seemed impressed. I know this may be hard too accept for some of those that have been doing machine work for a long time but it is possible to learn manual machining as well as gunsmith work on your own and still produce good quality, it just takes a little time and dedication.

Theres a BIG difference between being a home hobby machinist and being on the front line where accuracy and TIME matter. Yes you can learn from youtube and books but it sure isn't an apprenticeship.

 

[butchlambert]

Theres a BIG difference between being a home hobby machinist and being on the front line where accuracy and TIME matter. Yes you can learn from youtube and books but it sure isn't an apprenticeship.

George, we both know a few that are on this years World's team that do their own work and they are not machinist.
That being said, they learned from the better smiths. They did not learn from youtube or chambering videos, or books.

 

[geo.ulrich]

George, we both know a few that are on this years World's team that do their own work and they are not machinist.
That being said, they learned from the better smiths. They did not learn from youtube or chambering videos, or books.

Butch, I agree but you know same as me you can take a 6 month apprentice and show him chambering or truing actions, they understand straight line tolerancing, this is not meant to down grade professional gunsmiths they have been taught there trade and understand the time and precision part of the trade...

 

[Wirelessguy2005]

Don't recall anyone saying otherwise. This exact same topic has come up before and there are always a few "professional gunsmiths" that try there best to talk guys out of learning to do their own work. Personally I think learning to do your own smith work is a very rewarding hobby and always encourage those interested in giving it a shot. After all you never know for sure until you try. That being said there is more than one guy on this forum that started smithing as a hobby and turned it into a career without any formal training/apprenticeship.

Theres a BIG difference between being a home hobby machinist and being on the front line where accuracy and TIME matter. Yes you can learn from youtube and books but it sure isn't an apprenticeship.

 

[hoz53]

Just a follow up...

I did a good bit more looking around and shockingly the CC that is just a couple of miles away from my home has intro to machining classes, a level 1 and 2. I'll be signing up for a spring class I believe. Just got to see if I can make it work with my job. I'm also going to grab copy of "The Machinist Handbook" to start familiarizing myself with it all.

Thanks to those that were encouraging.

If youre going to just do one gun to have done it you can get by with minimal knowledge. If youre going to do it as a hobby then going to the CC class Before you do any gun work is the best thing you could do IMO. There is just alot of stuff to learn in the machining but after you learn the basics doing a barrel is no problem. Watch some of the chambering videos while in school so you make sure you get the know how you want. If you then go to a chambering class having a little machining knowledge will help. The short classes dont have time to teach you machining. You say you dont especially want machines in your garage but you want it to be a hobby so how will you do that?

 

[Danny1788]

I say go for it brother. I'm a self taught garage warrior and build my own rifles. It was a long road to get where I am now. Two lathes later and about as much in buying tooling and building fixtures I have a process that works well for me. I read many books on machining before I started this. Reading for me was key, I would read the books and then reread them then go to the garage and spend countless hours fully understanding what I read and how it applied to what I was trying to accomplish with the machining process. like I said I am self taught and 3 years ago I didn't even own a lathe. I am very mechanically inclined and after buying a lot of tooling I hardly use now I can tell you that this is not an easy road but once you get to where your going its well worth the effort. Don't be afraid to ask questions, I know I asked a lot when I had questions and for the most part people around here are friendly and will help you out.

 

[butchlambert]

Butch, I agree but you know same as me you can take a 6 month apprentice and show him chambering or truing actions, they understand straight line tolerancing, this is not meant to down grade professional gunsmiths they have been taught there trade and understand the time and precision part of the trade...

George, I completely agree with you. I think you understand what I am saying. A few guys on this forum have my respect for their machine work and you are the top of the list.

 

[mahalan]

I'm in a similar position to you but a bit older. Job, wife, grandkids. Don't want to do it full time but want to give it a try to see if I can do it. Unfortunately (for me) I've also got the ridiculous notion that I'd like to try making a couple rifle barrels from round bar stock (I know, I'm looking to spend more than $150k to make less than $2k in barrels that won't be nearly as good as what I can buy). Right now, I'm getting bids on having a concrete pad poured for my shop. Next, it'll be getting bids to have the shop built. Then, the equipment and tooling purchased. Modify the equipment for my needs. Practice on PVC pipe to get familiar with the machines. Finally, buy some 416R round bar stock and start experimenting.

The one "bright" spot from a financial perspective is that this process is likely to take so long that there's a decent chance I'll die of old age before all of my spending is complete. LOL.

 

[geo.ulrich]

George, I completely agree with you. I think you understand what I am saying. A few guys on this forum have my respect for their machine work and you are the top of the list.

As you are with me, you and Dave Tooley and others understand the business side of this, 1000 yrs. ago they used hammers and stones to make things can it be done yes is it efficient no...

 

[halo68]

I bought one of those hobby lathes, it came with a couple of manuals, and a bunch of tools. I said to myself i'll never learn how to use this machine, after a little practice i was getting the hang of it. Now i make my own cleaning jags and other little things. My lathe is a Uni-Matt and folds up in it's own little oak and walnut box. It made me think about not buying a bigger lathe.

 

[hoz53]

• I was going to put my 68 South Bend Heavy 10 in my house but once I realized it was 3 phase and I needed to set up a VFD that was pretty much that. Now with the chips flyin, it's a good thing its in the garage! I still track chips in the house and trying to figure out how to avoid it. If anyone has a recommendations please speak up. I've made way covers and clean up pretty meticulously and they still stick to the bottom of my shoes and end up inside! I guess shop shoes is the answer, but I'm always back and fourth. Plus maybe you'll get into it and realize that you like working with metal but don't have the means for the level of accuracy that chambering requires. So what, there are so many other things to make for the hobby if you are interested. I just love running old machines. Just restored a 60's South Bend Precision Floor stand drill press. If you want to see something really cool, check out the video of Tom Lipton from Oxtoolco giving a tour of the machine shop at Berkeley. Amazing stuff! Jesse

I built my shop on a separate piece of property from where I live so if I want to sell the house I dont have to move the stuff in the shop. coarse its a mile away and not as handy but i dont deal with chips in the house. Why coulnt you put a VFD or phase converter in the living room since youve got chips in there anyhow.

I say go for it brother. I'm a self taught garage warrior and build my own rifles. It was a long road to get where I am now. Two lathes later and about as much in buying tooling and building fixtures I have a process that works well for me. I read many books on machining before I started this. Reading for me was key, I would read the books and then reread them then go to the garage and spend countless hours fully understanding what I read and how it applied to what I was trying to accomplish with the machining process. like I said I am self taught and 3 years ago I didn't even own a lathe. I am very mechanically inclined and after buying a lot of tooling I hardly use now I can tell you that this is not an easy road but once you get to where your going its well worth the effort. Don't be afraid to ask questions, I know I asked a lot when I had questions and for the most part people around here are friendly and will help you out.

Im doing it same way you did. I sure would have liked to take a machine shop class along the way but it can be done without it.

 

[hoz53]

I'm in a similar position to you but a bit older. Job, wife, grandkids. Don't want to do it full time but want to give it a try to see if I can do it. Unfortunately (for me) I've also got the ridiculous notion that I'd like to try making a couple rifle barrels from round bar stock (I know, I'm looking to spend more than $150k to make less than $2k in barrels that won't be nearly as good as what I can buy). Right now, I'm getting bids on having a concrete pad poured for my shop. Next, it'll be getting bids to have the shop built. Then, the equipment and tooling purchased. Modify the equipment for my needs. Practice on PVC pipe to get familiar with the machines. Finally, buy some 416R round bar stock and start experimenting.

The one "bright" spot from a financial perspective is that this process is likely to take so long that there's a decent chance I'll die of old age before all of my spending is complete. LOL.

And after you make the investment and are making good barrels start selling them. Another quality barrel source is always a good thing IMO. But if you just want to see if you can do it there are people who have made barrels with minimal equipment -check around.

 

[Bully]

Thanks again to those that offered encouragement.

I did find one piece of equipment that seems to be extremely hard to come by:
Does anyone know where to purchase "VooDoo Chicken Bones?"

I believe they come in a custom cardboard box from the deep south. The information I have is sketchy at best and I can't seem to source them.

It seems as though many on here find them invaluable and that a quality job cannot be completed without them.