Vudoo ?
- Thread starter Westex
- Start date
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
As far they didn't machine their own actions and components. it came from no other than Mike Bush go and check out SN. they assembled parts to build rifles.
this was from day one when Vudoo first opened their doors!
Lee
Trust, are you kidding me. That is the very guy that hawked this crap around like it was something special.
It was supposed to be up to RFBR standards and in all these years never won a national level RFBR match.
It may be missed in the pull the trigger and hope crowd but RFBR will not miss them at all.
Barrels were received as contoured blanks from various suppliers. All the machining required to turn and thread the tenon and muzzle, chamber/headspace and mill the extractor cuts was done inside Vudoo (I set the machines up and wrote the lathe code myself). The two exceptions to this were blanks from LW and Proof that had threaded muzzles, but no turning/threading done at the tenon end. Everyone was afraid of "pre-fitting" for the V-22, but it wasn't difficult.
There has never been any manufacturing from raw material form by Vudoo, they've always leaned 100% on supply chain. Starting this way as a stand up is common, but as growth occurs, vertical integration should also occur in accordance with what the cost accounting dictates.
MB
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Correct, feeding the ticks that wouldn't fall off instead of properly managing the growth is what led to my departure. What happened is what was prescribed to happen.
MB
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Thats too bad, nothing wrong on building rifles from components except for Jerry Stiller's 2500x, Trident, Nitro and DiOrio Turbo all are done that way. these are the only current action makers that I know of that machine the action in house and build rifles as well.
what was surprising was the revelation that Vudoo did not make the action. from the beginning the perception was that they were machined in Utah at least up until a week or so ago I bet many thought the same thing.
Lee
You're right, it's too bad, because it could've continued to flourish had the path to vertically integrate been taken, but they were crushed by the weight of supply chain dependence and some other things I won't talk about. Jerry has earned my respect for being a mainstay, but more importantly, he navigated for many years in a way that he was able to avoid the ticks.
MB
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
It's interesting to think, with so much reliance on outside vendors, that even with Voodoo's problems there could be clone produced in fairly short order by contacting the vendors and working out a deal. Maybe patent issues would stop that from happening?
I am also thinking about what lies ahead in Oklahoma IF this is truly happening.
There is one action maker in OK that comes to mind in particular. One known for producing a top quality action. Could it be that is where the action will wind up in some morphed form?
^ My impression from the beginning was that Vudoo admitted it outsourced actions, but Vudoo wanted it to be known from the outset that it had its own criteria for what constituted its ideal action, and so WHO made the action was something Vudoo absolutely did not banter around.
In other words, if need be, that manufacturer was interchangeable, and Vudoo’s customers should look to Vudoo, not their own preconceptions about established suppliers, for their understanding of what they were buying in a Vudoo gun.
Just as a hypothetical, a BAT Machine or similar, might agree to be an “OEM type” action manufacturer for Vudoo, but such would be on an at-will, indefinite basis and neither Vudoo nor “a BAT Machine” would be divulging or focusing on that relationship publicly, by mutual understanding.
Edit to Add: Vudoo was clear that the Remington 40-X Rimfire, decades out of production, was the father of its action. There was really no avoiding the acknowledgment, as everyone else would have pointed out that fact if they didn’t.
My only issue with Vudoo as an observer, is that it shape up and take care of business, responsibly, like the other boutiques in our niche industry do. Vudoo is too new and green and small, to be mimicking the worst traits of old companies that outgrew themselves.
In other words, if need be, that manufacturer was interchangeable, and Vudoo’s customers should look to Vudoo, not their own preconceptions about established suppliers, for their understanding of what they were buying in a Vudoo gun.
Just as a hypothetical, a BAT Machine or similar, might agree to be an “OEM type” action manufacturer for Vudoo, but such would be on an at-will, indefinite basis and neither Vudoo nor “a BAT Machine” would be divulging or focusing on that relationship publicly, by mutual understanding.
Edit to Add: Vudoo was clear that the Remington 40-X Rimfire, decades out of production, was the father of its action. There was really no avoiding the acknowledgment, as everyone else would have pointed out that fact if they didn’t.
My only issue with Vudoo as an observer, is that it shape up and take care of business, responsibly, like the other boutiques in our niche industry do. Vudoo is too new and green and small, to be mimicking the worst traits of old companies that outgrew themselves.
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Well, with the amount of money owed to the action manufacturer (at the time of asset purchase, it was around $800,000), how would there be a defense to the manufacturer making them for anyone that offered up payment? However, he only makes the receiver, bolt body and bolt nose.
There was a time that some other small parts were being made there, but I'm uncertain about that being the case now. So, either the same vendor makes the remainder of the parts that enables them to sell a complete assembly or other vendors have to be onboard to make what they were making. Bottom line is, in whatever form, there's at least one company that's getting complete actions.
Vudoo invalidated the patents when the action maker was allowed to manufacture around the patents just after the Gen 2 was introduced. So, assets of the company suddenly had no value....these were the types of decisions that led to the predicted outcome.
I won't speak to what I know about the OK connection....
MB
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
I would hazard a guess that their are ZERO firearm manufacturers who make 100% of the parts they use to build them. I know the company I worked for had outside vendors. I also know that we made parts for the automotive industry and sporting goods. The finished product is the ultimate end and it was always up to skilled workers to have pride turning those parts into a quality finished product.
Do we actually think BAT, for instance, could make it selling actions alone? If not wrong, they are also making other things for other industries as well.
Bluebird Buses are assembled in GA but I just read that they had given notice to a school board that tariffs were forcing them to raise the price of buses already ordered by $2600 each. That means some of those parts are coming from off shore. Few companies, especially those in the food industry, provide a country of origin. They merely say "distributed by **** ".
There's truth to what you're saying and I appreciate how you presented it. In the beginning, the team and approach was very tightly focused and everyone had their areas of responsibility. In the "DEFTI" days, the action maker didn't make moves without the guidance of what the technical plans were, and it worked well.
However, as they generally do when money is involved, things started changing, especially after the intro of the single shot action. One thing led to another and decisions were made that did two things, 1) placed the existence of the company in danger and 2) overly empowered the action maker due to the chronic inability to make timely payments (see reason 1).
MB
100% true. However, every firearm company I've been inside of has been in total control of their bread and butter parts. Where the cost accounting really comes into play is answering the question, "what makes the most financial sense to make in-house vs outsource?"
Generally speaking, small parts (pins, screws, springs, stamped and molded parts, etc.), will remain outsourced. And generally, parts like cocking pieces, firing pins, extractors, ejectors, etc., will start out as outsourced parts to maintain a timeline for product launch.
However, post launch, the accounting is done again to see where cost reductions can occur and if it makes sense to bring all or some of these parts in-house, a capital expenditure is planned to invest in the savings. In total, none of this approach was effectively employed at Vudoo.
MB
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
Understood. The one thing that made me the maddest was how long it took us to get a new product to market. We would be shown a prototype of a new exciting product and not see it in production for three years (sometimes longer). We were somewhat short in the engineering office and people I knew there told me in confidence that they couldn't work on a new product due to the fact they had been tasked to look for ways to cut costs on products we already made.
In the end, many times we lost engineers to our competitors only to see that exciting product show up there. So much for non-compete and NDAs!
Yessir, and those challenges continue to exist in every gun company to this day and the worst of the gun companies are those managed by automotive people. As far as non-competes, they're typically not worth the paper they're printed on if the company is located in a right-to-work state and/or, any of the truly "American" states.
MB
That’s not productive and likely a forum violation. The thread isn’t about singling out any individual or making personal character attacks. I’m not the OP but I for one, did invite any perspective from the inside and was glad to see his explanations. MB joined to specifically to reply, it would appear. Saying things like this makes guys wonder why bother to say anything.
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Thanks, Dude, and you're correct, I joined here to respond for all, but specifically to your questions. Based on what I announced last night, I'm not surprised by the immediate hate mail, which I'll not put any energy into.
MB
cp generation
Silver $$ Contributor
How do we get parts now ??
Shoot me an email at mbush@delanedevgroup.net. I'm not a vendor here, so I want to be respectful to the site.
MB
If you’re on FB, come check out and join my private group to keep up with the latest info on V-22 parts and things to come. The group is visible but you’ll have to get the nod.
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