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Vudoo V-22 Youtube vid... Must See TV

I called and talked to Vudoo today about a number of things About the V-22 that I ordered and arrived at my dealer to day including when to do my 1st cleaning. They specifically told me no bore guide is necessary. I didnt ask... they offered that info. The manufacturer of the rifle told me no bore guide is necessary when cleaning their rifle.

The maker of the rifle...

Told me...

How to clean THEIR rifle.

That THEY make.


I'm going to believe them, not you. Use a bore guide if you want. I dont care.
I own a Vudoo and am just about to have a second one.
No one at Vudoo, in the several conversations we've had, has ever said I didn't need a rod guide. In fact they SELL an action specific rod guide on their site.
Whether or not they do or don't recommend it I always use rod guides anytime I clean any rifle I own. Always.
That said, it is YOUR rifle and you may do whatever makes you happy.
You're going to enjoy your Vudoo. No matter how much @Tim s says you won't. o_O
 
I own a Vudoo and am just about to have a second one.
No one at Vudoo, in the several conversations we've had, has ever said I didn't need a rod guide. In fact they SELL an action specific rod guide on their site.
Whether or not they do or don't recommend it I always use rod guides anytime I clean any rifle I own. Always.
That said, it is YOUR rifle and you may do whatever makes you happy.
You're going to enjoy your Vudoo. No matter how much @Tim s says you won't. o_O


They do sell a bore guide. But thats what they told me. And their vid shows them cleaning w/o a bore guide. I believe them. They would know. Still... cant hurt anything to use one, they are fairly cheap, so its all well and good to use one.

But it's foolish and arrogant to tell the manufacturer of the rifle that they are cleaning their own rifle wrong.
 
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I wonder if Jeff Madison(M.Werks LLC) knows about that bore guide they are selling , it looks exactly like his design.
unless he is the one making them for Vudoo
for those who don't believe in using a bore guide or think it is optional, it is about $700 to have a new barrel put on a action, bore guide $40.00 very cheap insurance IMO

Lee
 
Yes it is cheap insurance. I'm all for anyone who wants to using them.

The question here is are they necessary. As long as you don't use a sectioned steel rod and go out at like a jackhammer slamming the rod into the chamber and dont clean your Bore every other day and do use a basic modicum of care.. is a bore guide really ensuring anything?

Again I personally spoke with Vudoo yesterday about cleaning their gun. They said to wait to between 6 and 800 rounds before the 1st full cleaning.

But what would they know? How would they have any idea what's the proper practice? I mean… they only manufacture the rifle and have shot literally hundreds of thousands of rounds through them.

How is it people think they know more than the manufacturer? Do they also know more about Ford's then ford motor car company ? do they know more about Apple I phones than Apple does?

At what point does this discussion just become internet chutzpah?

SMH
 
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Chambering 10,000 rounds is far more likely to wear the chamber than 20 cleanings with a CF coated rod without a bore guide ( using the "clean every 500 rounds" recommended by Vudoo.)

Bore guides and full cleaning after every range trip are "old school." If yer gonna full clean after *every* range trip...yes. Use a bore guide, cuz yer gonna have 1000's of passes thru the barrel with your cleaning rod.
 
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I wonder if Jeff Madison(M.Werks LLC) knows about that bore guide they are selling , it looks exactly like his design.
unless he is the one making them for Vudoo
for those who don't believe in using a bore guide or think it is optional, it is about $700 to have a new barrel put on a action, bore guide $40.00 very cheap insurance IMO

Lee
Hi Lee,

I'm nearly certain that's one of Jeff's bore guides because he called me after receiving a Vudoo action and having been asked to produce one for it.

Jeff wanted to know if I owned a Voodoo or had tested one in my tunnel because he was impressed with the quality of the machining and some of the other features. He also wanted to send me a prototype guide to double check his built in tolerances that insure his guides will be a universal fit for all Vudoo actions. Jeff has sent quite a few prototype guides to me over the years for nearly all of the BR actions we shoot that I happen to own.

I told him I didn't own one and hadn't had anyone come to the tunnel to test one, but most of the internet chatter on forums was very positive.

Landy
 
I wonder if Jeff Madison(M.Werks LLC) knows about that bore guide they are selling , it looks exactly like his design.
unless he is the one making them for Vudoo
for those who don't believe in using a bore guide or think it is optional, it is about $700 to have a new barrel put on a action, bore guide $40.00 very cheap insurance IMO

Lee
Yes sir, the one I ordered straight from Vudoo is identified on the package as manufactured by M.Werks. Great guide!
Only complaint is that it won't work with a 22RF rod. It uses a 20 caliber rod as is but I understand can be drilled out for the 22 rods.
 
To me, the bore guide *is * a great solution to keep from drippng lots of cleaning solution down into the chassis / action of the gun. That alone is worth the price.
 
Hi Lee,

I'm nearly certain that's one of Jeff's bore guides because he called me after receiving a Vudoo action and having been asked to produce one for it.

Jeff wanted to know if I owned a Voodoo or had tested one in my tunnel because he was impressed with the quality of the machining and some of the other features. He also wanted to send me a prototype guide to double check his built in tolerances that insure his guides will be a universal fit for all Vudoo actions. Jeff has sent quite a few prototype guides to me over the years for nearly all of the BR actions we shoot that I happen to own.

I told him I didn't own one and hadn't had anyone come to the tunnel to test one, but most of the internet chatter on forums was very positive.

Landy
Hey Landy,

Thanks for clarification on their bore guide, Jeff is a real nice guy and I would hate to see someone copy his design.

Lee
 
Yes sir, the one I ordered straight from Vudoo is identified on the package as manufactured by M.Werks. Great guide!
Only complaint is that it won't work with a 22RF rod. It uses a 20 caliber rod as is but I understand can be drilled out for the 22 rods.
Drill it out with a #7 drill bit..I have heard of a few folks doing this so it works with the 22rf rod.
 
Yes it is cheap insurance. I'm all for anyone who wants to using them.

The question here is are they necessary. As long as you don't use a sectioned steel rod and go out at like a jackhammer slamming the rod into the chamber and dont clean your Bore every other day and do use a basic modicum of care.. is a bore guide really ensuring anything? SMH

Mr. Garandman,

I’m of the understanding for Rimfire rifles of the quality and expected precision of your Vudoo, a 20 cal coated rod with a proper bore guide is essential to get a long life of precision shooting. My information is from the guys that shoot groups similar to what Lee displayed. It’s about the throat of a match chamber, wearing it off center.
If your cleaning grandpa’s 60 year old Winchooter a sectioned rod wouldn’t make much difference on its grouping.

I follow Dan Killough’s recommendation:

How and why they clean rifles at the Eley test range. This is for rimfire lead bullets only. (Got this in an email this morning.)

One of the most common questions I receive on the phone and at the test range is "What is your cleaning procedure?"

I will share what we do and why. At the range, we clean after every 90-100 rounds. I do not have any of the data, but the engineers from Eley tell me that clean guns shoot better than dirty guns. They get this opinion from all of the data collected from the three Eley Test Ranges. They keep the test information from every rifle that has ever been tested in an Eley Test Range. When testing a rifle we note when we clean the rifle and data is collected on the fouling shots. They have crunched the numbers from this information and come to the conclusion that cleaning is a good thing for rimfire barrels. I have also drawn the same conclusion from my experience shooting benchrest. It has been my experience that every barrel loses accuracy once it becomes dirty, the point at which it loses accuracy is different for each barrel. Almost all of the competitions across rimfire whether 3-P, Benchrest, or Silhouette require somewhere between 25-100 shots before a competitor can easily clean their rifle. I also have not personally seen a rifle that could not shoot at least 100 rounds before losing accuracy due to fouling. So, we settled on 90-100 rounds in between cleanings.

Now part 2, how do we actually clean. We use a bore guide that fits the cleaning rod tightly and the bore guide does not go all the way to the barrel, it stops at the loading ramp. I like to see the rod as it goes into the barrel so I can verify that it is going down the center of the barrel. I use a Kleen Bore Jag because it is the same diameter as my cleaning rod, we use Pro-Shot 1 1/8" square cleaning patches, and we use Pro-Shot 1-Step Solvent. I push one wet patch down the barrel and remove the patch at the muzzle. I then use a Short 10" cleaning rod with a .22 caliber Nylon brush and I scrub the first 2-3" of the barrel with a back and forth motion for about 10 strokes. This is to remove the combustion ring. I then push more wet patches until they come out clean. Typically this is about 4 patches. If we are still shooting the rifle, then I finish with a dry patch. If we are finished shooting, then I finish with a wet patch. I have bore scoped many .22 barrels and I have not found one yet that the nylon brush would not remove the combustion ring. In the past, I used a bronze brush, JB Bore Cleaner, or Iosso polish. They will remove combustion ring, but JB and Iosso are both removing metal from the barrel. They are removing very, very, little metal, but they are removing some. I do not believe the bronze brush will damage the barrel, but many people do not like to use bronze brushes on rimfire barrels. Now the Nylon brush could not possibly damage the barrel and I know it is getting the job done, so that is what I use.

Also, if you are testing your rifle with us and you have a different cleaning regimen, we will be happy to follow it for your rifle. It is your rifle, and we will do everything we can to accommodate you.

I hope you find this information helpful. Perhaps it is not the best cleaning regimen, but it has served me well. We only shoot lead bullets and the forces for a rimfire are not what a centerfire rifle is subjected to. Cleaning the rimfire is relatively easy and can be done in just a couple of minutes and I think it is extremely beneficial for accuracy. If you are not currently cleaning your rifle on a regular basis, I strongly urge you to do so.

Dan Killough
 
Mr. Garandman,

I’m of the understanding for Rimfire rifles of the quality and expected precision of your Vudoo, a 20 cal coated rod with a proper bore guide is essential to get a long life of precision shooting. My information is from the guys that shoot groups similar to what Lee displayed. It’s about the throat of a match chamber, wearing it off center.
If your cleaning grandpa’s 60 year old Winchooter a sectioned rod wouldn’t make much difference on its grouping.

I follow Dan Killough’s recommendation:

How and why they clean rifles at the Eley test range. This is for rimfire lead bullets only. (Got this in an email this morning.)

One of the most common questions I receive on the phone and at the test range is "What is your cleaning procedure?"

I will share what we do and why. At the range, we clean after every 90-100 rounds. I do not have any of the data, but the engineers from Eley tell me that clean guns shoot better than dirty guns. They get this opinion from all of the data collected from the three Eley Test Ranges. They keep the test information from every rifle that has ever been tested in an Eley Test Range. When testing a rifle we note when we clean the rifle and data is collected on the fouling shots. They have crunched the numbers from this information and come to the conclusion that cleaning is a good thing for rimfire barrels. I have also drawn the same conclusion from my experience shooting benchrest. It has been my experience that every barrel loses accuracy once it becomes dirty, the point at which it loses accuracy is different for each barrel. Almost all of the competitions across rimfire whether 3-P, Benchrest, or Silhouette require somewhere between 25-100 shots before a competitor can easily clean their rifle. I also have not personally seen a rifle that could not shoot at least 100 rounds before losing accuracy due to fouling. So, we settled on 90-100 rounds in between cleanings.

Now part 2, how do we actually clean. We use a bore guide that fits the cleaning rod tightly and the bore guide does not go all the way to the barrel, it stops at the loading ramp. I like to see the rod as it goes into the barrel so I can verify that it is going down the center of the barrel. I use a Kleen Bore Jag because it is the same diameter as my cleaning rod, we use Pro-Shot 1 1/8" square cleaning patches, and we use Pro-Shot 1-Step Solvent. I push one wet patch down the barrel and remove the patch at the muzzle. I then use a Short 10" cleaning rod with a .22 caliber Nylon brush and I scrub the first 2-3" of the barrel with a back and forth motion for about 10 strokes. This is to remove the combustion ring. I then push more wet patches until they come out clean. Typically this is about 4 patches. If we are still shooting the rifle, then I finish with a dry patch. If we are finished shooting, then I finish with a wet patch. I have bore scoped many .22 barrels and I have not found one yet that the nylon brush would not remove the combustion ring. In the past, I used a bronze brush, JB Bore Cleaner, or Iosso polish. They will remove combustion ring, but JB and Iosso are both removing metal from the barrel. They are removing very, very, little metal, but they are removing some. I do not believe the bronze brush will damage the barrel, but many people do not like to use bronze brushes on rimfire barrels. Now the Nylon brush could not possibly damage the barrel and I know it is getting the job done, so that is what I use.

Also, if you are testing your rifle with us and you have a different cleaning regimen, we will be happy to follow it for your rifle. It is your rifle, and we will do everything we can to accommodate you.

I hope you find this information helpful. Perhaps it is not the best cleaning regimen, but it has served me well. We only shoot lead bullets and the forces for a rimfire are not what a centerfire rifle is subjected to. Cleaning the rimfire is relatively easy and can be done in just a couple of minutes and I think it is extremely beneficial for accuracy. If you are not currently cleaning your rifle on a regular basis, I strongly urge you to do so.

Dan Killough

I appreciate you taking all the time to post that information for me. Thing is... Vudoo, the manufacture of the rifle, specifically says a bore guide is not necessary. I'm left to wonder.. do you think they do not know their own rifle? Or are they trying to get me to damage the chamber so they can sell more barrels? Why do you think they would say that? The video of it is posted above.

I've heard opinions for and against bore guides from very reputable sources on both sides. I've also heard numerous reputable sources say there's no need to clean the gun fully after every range trip. ... including Vudoo themselves. What's a fellow to believe? Am I to stack your resume against their resume and figure out who's right?

Far as I can tell, lots of people with lots of credentials have lots of loud opinions that contradict each other and it's hard to know exactly who's right.

Vudoo says I don't need a bore guide for their rifle. You say I do. Who do you think I should believe?

That said… I bought Vudoos bore guide. If only to keep cleaning solution out of the action and stock.

Again thank you for your post. I will go back and study it more extensively. The thing said that resonated the most with me is stopping the bore guide short of the feed ramp so you can see the jag tip feed into the chamber without slamming into the chamber wall. That makes perfect sense.
 
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You can buy different bushings from Jeff at M.Werks. he makes one for the Pro-shot .22 and dewey rods also

Lee

For what it’s worth, after using Jeffs guides for years I’ve moved to the ones Dan sells. The insert centers in the guide more firmly and more importantly, the insert is a fair bit longer which further reduces rod flex.
You might want to try one.
 
I chamber barrels for a living and I can tell you for certain I’ve seen more ruined rimfire barrels that were cleaned without a bore guide ruined than ruined barrels just from shooting them too much. I wouldn’t ever clean a barrel, centerfire or rimfire without a guide.
 
I chamber barrels for a living and I can tell you for certain I’ve seen more ruined rimfire barrels that were cleaned without a bore guide ruined than ruined barrels just from shooting them too much. I wouldn’t ever clean a barrel, centerfire or rimfire without a guide.

My doesn’t that sound familiar.
 
I chamber barrels for a living and I can tell you for certain I’ve seen more ruined rimfire barrels that were cleaned without a bore guide ruined than ruined barrels just from shooting them too much. I wouldn’t ever clean a barrel, centerfire or rimfire without a guide.

The Vudoo builder says he has more than 30k rounds on some of his bbls, which are still going strong.

Im wondering.... is it possible to shoot out a 22rf? :)

As has been said... bore guides are cheap to buy. Barrels are expensive to replace.
 

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