Vertical groups, next step
- Thread starter john 800
- Start date
wildcatter
Silver $$ Contributor
I have no idea where you started or what the groups looked like getting there. But if your not experiencing heavy bolt lift, or any other physical sign of to much pressure, I would never stop going up! Smokeless powder, especially the slower powders have never burned even at low pressure, the more pressure in my experience, the more even the burn, and the better the results!
200 yards is not far enough take great notice in minor velocity spreads, but at 70 or more fps it would show part of your vertical, one more reason I don't work up loads without a chronograph, but it does show me when powder is burning more even.
But even with what your getting, I would first replace the scope and check my bases and rings making sure everything is right and tight. I can't count the times, I've seen scopes that were dead nut when they were last shot, and outa the gate after sitting some time, WTF.
But if that checks out the same,,, take it up, 3 shot groups,,, .3 grain at a time, I've got guns that like 1.5-2 grains or more over what a book said was max, and then I've had guns in the same caliber that showed book loads before max were getting to hot! just part of load development!
200 yards is not far enough take great notice in minor velocity spreads, but at 70 or more fps it would show part of your vertical, one more reason I don't work up loads without a chronograph, but it does show me when powder is burning more even.
But even with what your getting, I would first replace the scope and check my bases and rings making sure everything is right and tight. I can't count the times, I've seen scopes that were dead nut when they were last shot, and outa the gate after sitting some time, WTF.
But if that checks out the same,,, take it up, 3 shot groups,,, .3 grain at a time, I've got guns that like 1.5-2 grains or more over what a book said was max, and then I've had guns in the same caliber that showed book loads before max were getting to hot! just part of load development!
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
my 700 and brothers loves 59g with a fed 210.
Vertical usually means add more powder or use a hotter primer, usually.
Vertical usually means add more powder or use a hotter primer, usually.
If your stock is factory tupperware....
They can cause vertical stringing. I'm not hating on them,actually like them.... but they "can" (don't mean will) be right pogo stick in how they misbehave on the bench. There are remediations but,unless you really like/love messing around with them... well,just sayin.
Good luck with your shooting.
They can cause vertical stringing. I'm not hating on them,actually like them.... but they "can" (don't mean will) be right pogo stick in how they misbehave on the bench. There are remediations but,unless you really like/love messing around with them... well,just sayin.
Good luck with your shooting.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
My brother has had fantastic luck with those Rem synthetic stocks filling the forearm FULL of those stick on wheel weights, and he does have a good muzzle break on the rifle...I do not understand the physics of why it works. I have seen many of his rifles shoot very good groups at 500 yards...dang...If I had not seen it with my own eyes, I would have never believed it. I taught him how to tune a load, and he does put on great optics.
I would carefully go a little higher in charge. Or, try a different powder which today is more easily said than done. That load also may respond well to a magnum primer. But drop charge weight if you do that and work back up. Just about every 270 I have ever dealt with would shoot quite well with 55 grains of IMR 4350, a standard primer, and a 130 grain bullet. This is a stout load but was an accuracy load in one of my older Lyman loading manuals.
Some other thoughts. For lack of a better term, Table Manners. I cannot shoot prone with a bipod due to breaking my back years ago and spasms so most of my shooting is with a front rest and rear bag from a bench. If I am not careful with stock placement in the pocket of my shoulder and securing the stock properly, the butt will slide downward during the shot process and subsequent recoil and allow my groups to string vertically. I doubt that’s your issue but just thought I would mention it.
Most all of this info is covered above and good info at that. I would also consider a longer bullet, possibly a 140, and one that is forgiving to “jump”. My 700 Varmint in 308 has a very long throat and I can’t get anywhere close to the lands at Mag length. This is a hunting and informal target rifle. I have had very good luck with Hornady Amax, SSTs, and BTSPs. The rifle seems to like that ogive design. It does well with eldm’s also but is more picky on seating depth. Ballistic tips do pretty good as well but finicky on seating depth also in that rifle. My Model 70 in 270 win does really well with 130s and 140s. My old 700 in 270 did very well with Speer 130 BTSP. Of course, every rifle is different.
Lastly, try slowing your time between shots particularly if the barrel is a thinner hunting profile and not floated. One of the most accurate cold bore guns I have ever shot is a 270 Browning A bolt that belongs to a good friend. I check zero on it for him every year. With Fed Premium 130 ballistic tips, it never fails to put the first two shots pretty much in the same hole. After that, they start walking up the target. Let it sit for an hour, or a week, those 1st two shots will be right back to zero. As a hunting gun, one and done, it works perfect for him.
Some other thoughts. For lack of a better term, Table Manners. I cannot shoot prone with a bipod due to breaking my back years ago and spasms so most of my shooting is with a front rest and rear bag from a bench. If I am not careful with stock placement in the pocket of my shoulder and securing the stock properly, the butt will slide downward during the shot process and subsequent recoil and allow my groups to string vertically. I doubt that’s your issue but just thought I would mention it.
Most all of this info is covered above and good info at that. I would also consider a longer bullet, possibly a 140, and one that is forgiving to “jump”. My 700 Varmint in 308 has a very long throat and I can’t get anywhere close to the lands at Mag length. This is a hunting and informal target rifle. I have had very good luck with Hornady Amax, SSTs, and BTSPs. The rifle seems to like that ogive design. It does well with eldm’s also but is more picky on seating depth. Ballistic tips do pretty good as well but finicky on seating depth also in that rifle. My Model 70 in 270 win does really well with 130s and 140s. My old 700 in 270 did very well with Speer 130 BTSP. Of course, every rifle is different.
Lastly, try slowing your time between shots particularly if the barrel is a thinner hunting profile and not floated. One of the most accurate cold bore guns I have ever shot is a 270 Browning A bolt that belongs to a good friend. I check zero on it for him every year. With Fed Premium 130 ballistic tips, it never fails to put the first two shots pretty much in the same hole. After that, they start walking up the target. Let it sit for an hour, or a week, those 1st two shots will be right back to zero. As a hunting gun, one and done, it works perfect for him.
Last edited:
Not sure, Ill have to try next time I am out.
Absolutely! The one I really hate to see someone bring to me to mount optics and zeronis the low end savage plastic stock with the small grip and standard non accu trigger. The trigger is usually 5 plus pounds and creepy. Then when you start applying pressure to the trigger, no matter how delicate you try to be, you can watch the crosshairs walk up the target. That stock actually flexes very easily in the grip area. It actually bothers me knowing that if I can’t be very accurate with it considering that I shoot all the time, how is a girlfriend, wife, or a young hunter with very little trigger time going to be accurate with it. But, Replace the stock and trigger and those guns will actually surprise you.
Murray Brook
Silver $$ Contributor
Using RL-22 and the 130 gr Speer I was able to work safely up to 60 grs Rl-22 in my 270 Win. Velocity (3031 ft/sec) was good as well accuracy. I used a Fed 215. As others have posted maybe you can increase your load and see if this works.
Add more powder. If the vertical doesn't reduce. It is likely something in the system. Shooter, gun, or bench technique.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.