Vertical Dispersion: Flat spots on the MV ladder test are meaningless

[Dave Way]

600 yard test. Do you call 29.7, 29.8 and 29.9 a flat spot? I couldn’t tell you the average velocity. I couldn’t tell you the ES. I couldn’t tell you the SD. I rarely chronograph.

What I can tell you is I absolutely love it when a lower powder charge impacts higher on the target than a higher powder charge does. I’ll pick it every single time. The target is all I really need. I do call it a flat spot, and 29.7 shot a record aggregate at 600 yard Nationals last year.



Dave.

 

[Beiruty]

600 yard test. Do you call 29.7, 29.8 and 29.9 a flat spot? I couldn’t tell you the average velocity. I couldn’t tell you the ES. I couldn’t tell you the SD. I rarely chronograph.

What I can tell you is I absolutely love it when a lower powder charge impacts higher on the target than a higher powder charge does. I’ll pick it every single time. The target is all I really need. I do call it a flat spot, and 29.7 shot a record aggregate at 600 yard Nationals last year.

View attachment 1368011

Dave.

Dave: Your method is explained in this chart

 

[Beiruty]

more

Barrel Tuner Analysis -- FEA Dynamic Analysis of Esten's Rifle with/without a Tuner.

 

[LRPV]

I’m gonna apologize in advance. Anyone remember who won the lowest SD award last weekend in GA?

 

[6MMsteve]

 

[Beiruty]

I’m gonna apologize in advance. Anyone remember who won the lowest SD award last weekend in GA?

It depends on how far you would be shooting
1) To reduce group size, adjust seating depth
2) To lower MV SD, start with good brass and hunt for OFPS
3) To reduce vertical dispersion, see chart in response #231
4) Adding a tuner is effectively acting as dampener for the muzzle vertical oscillation, flattening the curve in response #231

Acing the reading of the wind, would trump all the above.

 

[Beiruty]

View attachment 1368043

With all respect to the lifestyle of the Amish people, I never saw an Amish debating Einstein on the presence of dark matter!

 

[JFrank]

Here is the deal, please show your load development where being on a flat spot resulted in the lowest dispersion at long range. Fine tune as much as you want as long as you show that your best vertical dispersion load was on a flat spot on the original ladder test

Like this ?

 

[Bc'z]

Like this ?

I'd bet a brick of primers you couldn't tell us what the ES/SD #'S are for that test

 

[JFrank]

I'd bet a brick of primers you couldn't tell us what the ES/SD #'S are for that test

12 ‘ Now send the Brick..

 

[JFrank]

I'd bet a brick of primers you couldn't tell us what the ES/SD #'S are for that test

I’ll bet a that brick back that half the guys responding didn’t read the theory op posted.

All kidding aside isn’t everyone saying the same thing ?

OFPS Theory.docx

onedrive.live.com

 

[BartsBullets]

It depends on how far you would be shooting
1) To reduce group size, adjust seating depth
2) To lower MV SD, start with good brass and hunt for OFPS
3) To reduce vertical dispersion, see chart in response #231
4) Adding a tuner is effectively acting as dampener for the muzzle vertical oscillation, flattening the curve in response #231

Acing the reading of the wind, would trump all the above.

Impressive how you’re telling one of the best long range shooters of all time how to tune. Hilarious!

Bart

 

[Beiruty]

Impressive how you’re telling one of the best long range shooters of all time how to tune. Hilarious!

Bart

I am delighted to see you being amused. You are the smartest person to figure out that no novice shooter ever read this forum.

 

[davidjoe]

Impressive how you’re telling one of the best long range shooters of all time how to tune. Hilarious!

Bart

I don’t know about today, but as of yesterday, David Christian was leading the several Americans (all very good) competing at Bisley in the European championship long range pair fire matches.

 

[Ga. Dawg]

Impressive how you’re telling one of the best long range shooters of all time how to tune. Hilarious!

Bart

I’ll bet on the Iceman!

Mike

 

[Tarmacshooter]

Bryan Litz dedicated a full chapter, 6 for ladder testing for accuracy.
Under the fair use clause, here is a summary that supports the claim of this thread and supports the conclusion of the OFPS theory, seeking the lowest MV SD

View attachment 1367979

Our theory for ladder testing isn’t dependent on ES/SD. It’s about what prints on paper. At least mid range. LR u would prefer a sub 20 ES. If not it can be tuned for the slower felicity to print higher.

 

[Ccrider]

A number of people say this, but a 0 ES is the only logical goal. There is a real problem with accepting non-correlation as being true. For consecutive bullets shot at different velocities, if they went through the same hole, it was due to luck, meaning a flinch, bad aiming, the wind, a bullet defect, etc.

In a tunnel with a constant hold, It is simply not possible for identical bullets to hit exactly the same place if they have different velocities. They will necessarily drop, spin, and spin drift at different rates. That we don’t shoot in a tunnel, does not mean that now a certain amount of ES that is bigger than 0, becomes good for accuracy.

I would like to see proof of this. It does not bear out with what I see on paper.

 

[Tarmacshooter]

 

[davidjoe]

I would like to see proof of this. It does not beat out with what I see on paper.

If positive compensation does serve to mechanically compress vertical dispersion with a given velocity spread, it would still do that as the velocity spread decreases.

 

[Webster]

View attachment 1368143

Wheres FGUFFY when you need him?