Vertical Dispersion: Flat spots on the MV ladder test are meaningless
- Thread starter Beiruty
- Start date
Oh one last note. Take this garbage back to Sniper’s Hide. I’m sure your “assessment” will fit right in.
May want to gauge your audience before you light that dumpster on fire.
May want to gauge your audience before you light that dumpster on fire.
Clancy
Silver $$ Contributor
The laziness of some of my fellow shooters never ceases to amaze me.
Targets are made of paper, which was made at least as far back as the time of the pharaohs. That is all the technology I need to determine the “best” load.
As far as the advancement of our sport, and the breaking of records, we will always be tied to the advancement of manufacturing. Better bullets, better barrels, and better propellants.
A quick question for the 10 shot crowd… where can I get this brass with such uniform dimensions as to trust it as gospel after a single shot?
Targets are made of paper, which was made at least as far back as the time of the pharaohs. That is all the technology I need to determine the “best” load.
As far as the advancement of our sport, and the breaking of records, we will always be tied to the advancement of manufacturing. Better bullets, better barrels, and better propellants.
A quick question for the 10 shot crowd… where can I get this brass with such uniform dimensions as to trust it as gospel after a single shot?
Clancy
Silver $$ Contributor
30 shots is a whole lot different than 10, and for the record I was in no way talking about you.
I get a call very frequently like “hey man, I did the 10 shot ladder and my groups aren’t very good in my flat spot.”
Well, duh.
I tune seating first, always, and then proceed with powder work. It’s just easier for me to read a lot of good groups vs a lot of bad ones when looking for a node with powder charges.
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
For this setup, I really only "need" 10 - But I'm going in knowing almost exactly where it will land. On an unknown setup I'll do 30...
There are a dozen ways to do load development, they all lead to the same thing - Powder and seating depth choices. Do what works well for you, at the range you have available. Wind is nasty at my range, so is vertical, so I like this method.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
I just shoot Hornady factory ammo in my CreedmoorKING, i never miss and all the ladies wants a piece
+1 for the OP.
The original ladder test looks for grouping shots with sequentially increasing powder charge.
It is meaningless.
Other ladder tests look for velocity flat spots. Equally meaningless.
If you sequentially increase the powder charge, and hit a velocity "flat spot", you have hit a problem, not a solution. Velocity must increase when powder charge increases. If it doesn't you've done something wrong. Find and fix.
If you sequentially increase the powder charge, and find shots "grouping" closer on target, you have found a barrel harmonic node using powder charge changes. This has nothing to do with accuracy on it's own. It is much more efficient to find those nodes with seating depth changes.
If ladder tests cannot be duplicated precisely by the same person using the same equipment at different times, how important are the results ?
The original ladder test looks for grouping shots with sequentially increasing powder charge.
It is meaningless.
Other ladder tests look for velocity flat spots. Equally meaningless.
If you sequentially increase the powder charge, and hit a velocity "flat spot", you have hit a problem, not a solution. Velocity must increase when powder charge increases. If it doesn't you've done something wrong. Find and fix.
If you sequentially increase the powder charge, and find shots "grouping" closer on target, you have found a barrel harmonic node using powder charge changes. This has nothing to do with accuracy on it's own. It is much more efficient to find those nodes with seating depth changes.
If ladder tests cannot be duplicated precisely by the same person using the same equipment at different times, how important are the results ?
@Clancy @414gates & @Beiruty. Post your scores, your targets or your national records. I’ll wait. Seriously, waiting.
Otherwise you are all a bunch of keyboard cowboys mixed in with a dash of troll.
Let’s keep this dumpster fire burning!!!
Again, go back to snipers hide. You are turning this place into a mirror of that shit show.
Otherwise you are all a bunch of keyboard cowboys mixed in with a dash of troll.
Let’s keep this dumpster fire burning!!!
Again, go back to snipers hide. You are turning this place into a mirror of that shit show.
This chart is fake news. The cartridges were cooled in a freezer then artificially warmed to get the temperature swings. Then shot in like 70 degree temps. It’s not a valid (or even close) representation of how velocity changes durning a day as the temperature increases.
Bart
Oops….
Have you ever performed the same ladder test at different times and recorded the same result. ? Please share.
Or barrels getting hot from sustained strings of fire.
You show me your competition targets, PRS scores, national records or match scores and I’ll show you mine.
Otherwise, you are wrong and will be declared a troll.
okie
Silver $$ Contributor
yeah test shoulda put rifle AND the ammo in heat/ freezer...
Clancy
Silver $$ Contributor
So you pick on me because I said it takes more than 10 shots to do load development? Excellent. That’ll teach the new kids something!
Never been a member of Sniper’s Hide.
I post targets on here very frequently. I don’t compete, and don’t have the desire to if people are going to act like you. I do shoot several times a week, and I have for many years. Small groups are small groups, no matter where you go.
I’d like to point out for anyone else reading this that I went back 6 pages and didn’t find anything useful that @Tarmacshooter had posted. Mostly just using the place for classifieds. Hmmm…. Troll.
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