• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Varmint bullet choices...

bobinpa

Gold $$ Contributor
It seems to me that Hornady is the only company making heavy for caliber boat tail bullets specifically for varmints in .224... I know you can use a lot of bullets for varmints but why is Hornady the only one making the heavies marketed at varmint hunters?
For examples: Hornady .224 62 gr ELD VT or 80 gr ELD X

Just curious why Sierra or Berger etc aren't making something in a boat tail?.?.?.
 
I think only the 62 ELD-VT is built like a varmint bullet. The 80 ELD-X is a controlled expansion bullet intended for using fast 22's (fast twist 22-250, 22 Creed, etc) for medium game, not an explosive varmint projectile.

Closest thing is probably the Sierra TMK's in either 60 or 69 gr, so they are making them, but availability has been spotty.
 
I assume the question is because the OP has a fast twist rifle and the 50 to 55's designed varmint bullets will not group the desired amount in his .224 rifles.

I have used the 60 Vmax in 8" twist 223 Rem Tikka's out to 250 yards on predators and they work just fine. This would be my choice for a varmint bullet if the twist dictated a long bullet to give me the desired accuracy. This bullet is flat based, very accurate in my 8" twist rifles.

I have use the Nosler 50 and 55 grain BTs in the 223 Rem (12" twist) and 22 250 (14" twist) for many years and these bullets are outstanding on eastern groundhogs and on predators for that matter. They leave nothing to be desired.

I never understood why varmint rifles are now being produced with fast twists. I can understand it for target shooting but wonder if these heavy bullets expand enough on varmints and whether they create a problem of ricochets.
 
I assume the question is because the OP has a fast twist rifle and the 50 to 55's designed varmint bullets will not group the desired amount in his .224 rifles.

I have used the 60 Vmax in 8" twist 223 Rem Tikka's out to 250 yards on predators and they work just fine. This would be my choice for a varmint bullet if the twist dictated a long bullet to give me the desired accuracy. This bullet is flat based, very accurate in my 8" twist rifles.

I have use the Nosler 50 and 55 grain BTs in the 223 Rem (12" twist) and 22 250 (14" twist) for many years and these bullets are outstanding on eastern groundhogs and on predators for that matter. They leave nothing to be desired.

I never understood why varmint rifles are now being produced with fast twists. I can understand it for target shooting but wonder if these heavy bullets expand enough on varmints and whether they create a problem of ricochets.

I typically run heavy for caliber bullets because they drift less in the wind and have better downrange ballistics than lighter bullets when shooting far. "Everyone" makes heavy match bullets, but almost nobody makes heavy "expanding" bullets. Just as a loose example, Hornady makes an 80 gr ELD X with a G1 BC of .485. I can't find any other company that makes a .224 bullet over 75 gr with a boat tail unless it's a match bullet. I know match bullets will kill stuff, but...

I am just curious as to why that is? Is it cost prohibitive? Is it just too difficult? Does nobody else feel there is a demand? Is Hornady simply trying to lead the way?

Just thinking out loud here...
 
Why other manufacturers are not making them? Look on the shelves and see whats more in stock. While i love bergers and nosler varmint bullets. Last several years hornady is what i have been buying since they are available. They dont have the supply up let alone coming out with another bullet design.
 
77 grain Sierra TMK
80.5 grain Berger
Hornady does indeed spend more money than the others on "marketing"
 
…… and Hornady has much better availability. Also, when Big Money starts buying bullet companies (Sierra and Berger) it’s not a good deal for us typically.

Cross your fingers that Hornady “keeps it in the family/employees hands” !!!

My 2 cents ….
Wooohooo buddy! Well said!
 
I typically run heavy for caliber bullets because they drift less in the wind and have better downrange ballistics than lighter bullets when shooting far. "Everyone" makes heavy match bullets, but almost nobody makes heavy "expanding" bullets. Just as a loose example, Hornady makes an 80 gr ELD X with a G1 BC of .485. I can't find any other company that makes a .224 bullet over 75 gr with a boat tail unless it's a match bullet. I know match bullets will kill stuff, but...

I am just curious as to why that is? Is it cost prohibitive? Is it just too difficult? Does nobody else feel there is a demand? Is Hornady simply trying to lead the way?

Just thinking out loud here...
My .02, I would guess it is as much a jacket thing, to get a match bullet to expand violently. Market is probably very slim as well.

I tend to be a bit forgiving on accuracy if I can get speed as well. As always accuracy trumps speed, but speed makes “splat factor” better ;-).
 
Thin Jacketed, "Tipped", Light Weight, 50-52 grainer's ( YES, Hornady V-Maxes & ELD-M's ) at, "Reasonable" .22-250 Rem., Speeds, Sub, 3,600 FPS and BRAKED = NO Muzzle "Jump" / recoil and awesome, "Splodies", in my scope !
I'm STAYING WITH, the 1-14 Twist, Light weight, Tipped, Bullet,.. "Theory" as IT, Just,.. Works !
My ole' Rem 700, LIKES them Out to, 300 Yards,.. Sage Rats,.. HATE,. them !
IF, I "need" a Heavier Bullet to, "Buck the Wind", way out there,.. I Have, a 6 XC for, THAT !
95 - 108 grain, High BC, Berg / SMK Bullets Do, Kill ,.. BUT,.. NO,. "Splodies" !
 
Last edited:
IF, I "need" a Heavier Bullet to, "Buck the Wind", way out there,.. I Have, a 6 XC for, THAT !
95 - 108 grain, High BC, Berg / SMK Bullets Do, Kill ,.. BUT,.. NO,. "Splodies" !
This right here is what I'm trying to create.... I want to find an "explosive" bullet for 500 - 600 yards out of my 22-47L. I'm probably going to try the 80 gr ELD X

I'm probably going to try the 103 ELD X out of my various 6's
 
I know. I'm trying to send the bigger ones fast enough to "blow up". I guess we'll see how it goes...
It would best you do a test- get back to us-
50gr bullets vs 80
(Speer, Sierra,Nosler,Berger -50gr vs 80eldx)
Use a 1 gal water jug for each bullet tested-

Any distance- preferably your “longest shooting distance “




-No sense in wishing gravel to be explosive-
 
I also wonder if the other reason fewer companies make an "explosive" long/heavy for caliber bullet is that it is more finicky to get the jacket thickness right. These bullets have to be pushed hard enough from a speed/twist standpoint to stabilize, but to have them hold up they have to have enough jacket thickness. This also by nature tends to make them less explosive, as a thin jacket bullet will just blow up before reaching the target.

I think bullets like the 80 ELDX avoid this because they either have a tapered jacket that is tougher at the base, or the jacket is locked/bonded.

Again try the TMK or 80 ELDM...
 
So what are you classifying as varmints? PDs, Groundhogs Coyotes What? Hit a PD or Groundhog in the belly with most anything and it's going to POP varmint bullet or not.
When I first started PD shooting in SD I used a 22-250 and a 308 . The 22-250 was awesome out to 5-600 yds for splat factor but a 125 NBT in 308 was much better beyond that range.
 
So what are you classifying as varmints? PDs, Groundhogs Coyotes What? Hit a PD or Groundhog in the belly with most anything and it's going to POP varmint bullet or not.
When I first started PD shooting in SD I used a 22-250 and a 308 . The 22-250 was awesome out to 5-600 yds for splat factor but a 125 NBT in 308 was much better beyond that range.
PA ground hogs and possibly prairie dogs. I know the 125 NBT out of a 308 is brutal on PA whitetails...
 
It seems to me that Hornady is the only company making heavy for caliber boat tail bullets specifically for varmints in .224... I know you can use a lot of bullets for varmints but why is Hornady the only one making the heavies marketed at varmint hunters?
For examples: Hornady .224 62 gr ELD VT or 80 gr ELD X

Just curious why Sierra or Berger etc aren't making something in a boat

It seems to me that Hornady is the only company making heavy for caliber boat tail bullets specifically for varmints in .224... I know you can use a lot of bullets for varmints but why is Hornady the only one making the heavies marketed at varmint hunters?
For examples: Hornady .224 62 gr ELD VT or 80 gr ELD X

Just curious why Sierra or Berger etc aren't making something in a boat tail?.?.?.
Bobinpa -

Howdy !

Maybe…. you don’t need to go w/ the “ heavies “ ?

Using 450ft lb kinetic energy as example threshold for minimum KE applied to groundhog:
( Load data from Hodgdon’ 2025 Reloading Annual Manual )
( Ballistic data from Hodgdon’ ballistic calculator, ltd to 25yd increments )
Using 200yd zero, 1.5” scope ht, for comparison w/ same zero

Example MAX RANGE for delivering 450 ft lb:
.220 Swift 24” 1-14 Hornady 55SX 42.5gr H380 3,839fps 497yd -31.2” drop
.22-250 24” 1-14 Sierra 55Blitz King 42.5 gr 6.5StaBal 3,887fps 583yd -48.5” drop
.22-250 24” 1-12 Nosler 60gr Varmint 40.5gr 6.5StaBal 3,711fps 450yd -50” drop

.22Creed 26” 1-7 Berger 60FB varmint 48gr Magpro. 3,487fps 529yd -32.8”drop

.22-250 24” 1-14 Hornady 60 V-Max 43gr SuperPerf 3,738fps 494yd -33” drop
.22 Creed 24” 1-7 Hornady 62 ELD-VT ( Swift 62gr Sir load ) 3,656fps 830yd -123” drop
.22-250 24” 1-14 Hornady 63Semi-Pt’d 42.7gr SuperPerf 3,674fps 497yd -35.8”drop
.22Creed 24” 1-7 Hornady 73ELD-M 43.5gr SuperPerf 3,484fps 853yd -146” drop

One needs to decide for themself what yardages they want to cover w/ the rifle.
500, 600; or 1,000 for examples.

IF the bulk of the ( groundhog ) shooting will take place @ 500’ish and under, one wouldn’t of necessity have to go w/ a heavy/ heavier VLD… especially if their location doesn’t always feature a bunch of wind. In my NE Indiana location, windage issues do not loom as large as elevation does; and a comparatively flat shooting set-up holds appeal.
As can be seen from the listed examples, an aerodynamic .224” 55gr varmint bullet could be used to provide the guideline 450ft lb out to 600 yd. This would be doable
w/ a .22-250, .220Swift, or .22 Creedmoor ( to name a few ) when each is given enough barrel length.

I prefer to use dedicated “ varmint bullets “ on groundhog. In .224” calibre, for me….
it’s the Hornady 55SX.

My intent for the next barrel, is to use a l-o-n-g barrel w/ gain twist, and propel the 55SX to 4,000fps using my “.22-35 Remington“ wildcat. This approach exploits use of a higher expansion ratio for the gun, w/ the gain twist selected to control bullet’ rpm’s. This rifle
would cover the bulk of my anti-groundhog shooting, w/ some 525+ yd of useful range; using my KE guideline. I still have my “ DEEP 6 “ wildcat barrel if need be, for any potential 1,000 yd kill shot.


With regards,
357Mag
 
This right here is what I'm trying to create.... I want to find an "explosive" bullet for 500 - 600 yards out of my 22-47L. I'm probably going to try the 80 gr ELD X

I'm probably going to try the 103 ELD X out of my various 6's
The ELD-X Line from Hornady, HAS a Thicker Jacket than, the ELD-M line of Bullets as, they ARE Made for, Big Game Hunting and, DEEPER,.. Penetration.
I Bought 400 Horn 6mm, 103 gr. ELD-X "Seconds", on the Cheap and will Use them on, Coyotes, etc. from my, 6 XC at 3,100 ish FPS with, NO,.. "Splodies" ,.. Expected !
Hopefully, a Good Mushroom W/ lots of, Penetration and, a very Dead, Yote.
You'll NEED, a much Bigger, Casing with, WAY More Powder than, the .22x47 Lapua, Has, to achieve "Splodies" at,.. 5-600 Yards with, 80 grain, ELD-X, .22 cal., Bullets
 
Last edited:
…… and Hornady has much better availability. Also, when Big Money starts buying bullet companies (Sierra and Berger) it’s not a good deal for us typically.

Cross your fingers that Hornady “keeps it in the family/employees hands” !!!

My 2 cents ….
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,788
Messages
2,203,183
Members
79,110
Latest member
miles813
Back
Top