Variances in shoulder bump?

[HawgBonz]

Sample size 100 pcs.
I'm FL/bushing (Redding) sizing 308 Starline brass with 4 firings and they get annealed every pass thru. I use the same RCBS Summit with the same die that hasn't been unscrewed for the last 3 firings. Cases are properly lubed with a thin coat of sizing lube and checked with a .375" Hornady comparator. As fired they come out ~1.655.
I've tried to set the die for .002" bump but I can get no regularity from it. They'll vary from 1.654 to 1.650. I'm using the same stroke and trying to keep as uniform as I can but to no avail.
Is this just the cost of working cheap brass? Mebbe I'm not annealing enough with my lil induction unit? I heat it till the case mouth starts to glow slightly.
I've got some Peterson waiting for when I felt like I was back up to speed. But wanted to practice with this Starline cause I could better afford ta screw some of those up. Whatchya think?

 

[Bill Norris]

Sample size 100 pcs.
I'm FL/bushing (Redding) sizing 308 Starline brass with 4 firings and they get annealed every pass thru. I use the same RCBS Summit with the same die that hasn't been unscrewed for the last 3 firings. Cases are properly lubed with a thin coat of sizing lube and checked with a .375" Hornady comparator. As fired they come out ~1.655.
I've tried to set the die for .002" bump but I can get no regularity from it. They'll vary from 1.654 to 1.650. I'm using the same stroke and trying to keep as uniform as I can but to no avail.
Is this just the cost of working cheap brass? Mebbe I'm not annealing enough with my lil induction unit? I heat it till the case mouth starts to glow slightly.
I've got some Peterson waiting for when I felt like I was back up to speed. But wanted to practice with this Starline cause I could better afford ta screw some of those up. Whatchya think?

Some brass simply is softer than others due to the component make -up. I have found by lowering the press handle slowly allowing the case to enter the die as easy as possible helps with the consistency.

 

[358WCF]

How long are you keeping the brass in the die? Try counting to 4 or 5 before backing the case out.

 

[alf]

The amount of lube on the case is generally the biggest culprit of variance.

 

[SpencerC87]

I believe you should be using a .400" comparator for .308

 

[Clancy]

What lube?

 

[HawgBonz]

Some brass simply is softer than others due to the component make -up. I have found by lowering the press handle slowly allowing the case to enter the die as easy as possible helps with the consistency.

I have def been "quick and decisive" with the press handle.. I'll try tempering that.

@358WCF - Only as much as it takes to go down-n-up. Seems I may need to change that.

@alf - To be sure it's a minimal amount. But I thought it sufficient w/o making a mess.

@SpencerC87 - You would be correct, sir. Dunno where I came up with the .375.

@Clancy - Imperial..

 

[jackieschmidt]

You say you anneal after every firing.

I shoot my 30BR cases made from Lapua 6BR so many times I loose count. And I never anneal anything.

I do use a RCBS Rockchucker. And I do let the cases dwell in the die for a few seconds.

Using the Redding variable headspace Shell Holders, I can also insure that the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die, insuring a good positive stop, not depending on the linkage.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Redding comp shell holders and camover

No expander ball

Bushings and mandrel

Good lube

Annealing every time

Zero variance.

Others accomplish this by other means, I hear, but this is what I do.

 

[K22]

Have you allowed the brass to fully fire form to the chamber?

Don't bump the shoulder unless you have to. I have learned that I can go several reloads without bumping the shoulder. I set the F/L die for zero bump. In my experience, because the F/L die is also sizing the radial dimension of the die, that is all that is necessary for several reloading and firing cycles.

I've used various brands of standard brass in the past 50+ years such as Remington, Winchester, Federal, Hornady and Starline. With these non-elite brands, occasionally I will find a few cases that are severely undersized (case head space) as much as .004 to .005". This makes it impossible, even with fire forming, to obtain consistency in sizing so I cull these cases. Remington seems to be the brand most prominent with this condition. The most consistent non-elite brand I've used is Winchester but often about 3 to 5 cases in a lot of 100 contain defects that are not fixable.

I assume you have started with virgin cases, dedicating them to a specific rifle and rotating their firing and sizing cycle. If not, then it is very difficult to obtain consistent sizing.

The absolute best lube I ever used which promotes consistent sizing if applied properly, is Imperial Sizing Wax. A tin of this will last you several thousand sizing's.

 

[HawgBonz]

You say you anneal after every firing.

I shoot my 30BR cases made from Lapua 6BR so many times I loose count. And I never anneal anything.

I do use a RCBS Rockchucker. And I do let the cases dwell in the die for a few seconds.

Using the Redding variable headspace Shell Holders, I can also insure that the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die, insuring a good positive stop, not depending on the linkage.

Yeah, annealing is a new thing for me. Never did it before either but figgered I'd try to learn somethin new and to be sure I did notice some improvement in my ES's after starting that.
I may look into those shell holders. I had thought trying to adjust that last lil bit was a bit of a pain but it may have just been me operating the handle too quickly and getting the inconsistant results.
I have grand plans to try one of Cortina's micro adjustable bushing dies for the big gun when the barrel gets done..

 

[HawgBonz]

Have you allowed the brass to fully fire form to the chamber?

Don't bump the shoulder unless you have to. I have learned that I can go several reloads without bumping the shoulder. I set the F/L die for zero bump. In my experience, because the F/L die is also sizing the radial dimension of the die, that is all that is necessary for several reloading and firing cycles.

I've used various brands of standard brass in the past 50+ years such as Remington, Winchester, Federal, Hornady and Starline. With these non-elite brands, occasionally I will find a few cases that are severely undersized (case head space) as much as .004 to .005". This makes it impossible, even with fire forming, to obtain consistency in sizing so I cull these cases. Remington seems to be the brand most prominent with this condition. The most consistent non-elite brand I've used is Winchester but often about 3 to 5 cases in a lot of 100 contain defects that are not fixable.

I assume you have started with virgin cases, dedicating them to a specific rifle and rotating their firing and sizing cycle. If not, then it is very difficult to obtain consistent sizing.

The absolute best lube I ever used which promotes consistent sizing if applied properly, is Imperial Sizing Wax. A tin of this will last you several thousand sizing's.

I have to. The brass was bought new when I traded for this rifle and has been used exclusively in it for 4 firings now. The cases are very snug in the chamber w/o some bump. Way-back-when I was a big fan of the old Lee Collet dies and they worked for a lot of cartridges, bump when needed as you stated. But these got tight quickly. I also ran into some "stubborn" cases that hadta be whacked a coupla times to get set back. But that may be me running the handle too quick as mentioned above.
Imperial is what I'm using.
Thanks much for everyone's input. I'm rusty and now get to throw "geezin" on top of that.

 

[358WCF]

I believe you should be using a .400" comparator for .308

Never mind... wrote before brain engaged.

 

[K22]

I have to. The brass was bought new when I traded for this rifle and has been used exclusively in it for 4 firings now. The cases are very snug in the chamber w/o some bump. Way-back-when I was a big fan of the old Lee Collet dies and they worked for a lot of cartridges, bump when needed as you stated. But these got tight quickly. I also ran into some "stubborn" cases that hadta be whacked a coupla times to get set back. But that may be me running the handle too quick as mentioned above.
Imperial is what I'm using.
Thanks much for everyone's input. I'm rusty and now get to throw "geezin" on top of that.

In your case, the bump is necessary. You don't want to place stress on the bolt lugs.

The slight pause while sizing can help.

 

[SpencerC87]

Using .295 for the neck diameter & .462 for the shoulder, splitting the difference comes out to .378 if my math is correct. Per instructions the closest bushing to the split (.375 in this case) is the one to use. The .400 should also work fine. Pick one & stay with it. It's not exact the dimension, it comparative.

Neck OD is more like .341, not sure where you're getting .295 from. Is also depends on what his sizing die is cut to and what the chamber is cut to. If the shoulder angle isn't the same or isn't getting pushed back the same, it does matter where you measure, or compare, from. Also, I've had the best luck in consistency running the brass with decent force into the die at a good pace. If you pussyfoot around with it, it doesn't size consistantly. I'm not a believer in dwell times but plan to actually test it in the future.

 

[JMayo]

In My opinion .....
Looking for too much prefection. Find a range that's all inclusive. .001 or 2 to short isn't as bad as too long.

 

[HawgBonz]

Using .295 for the neck diameter & .462 for the shoulder, splitting the difference comes out to .378 if my math is correct. Per instructions the closest bushing to the split (.375 in this case) is the one to use. The .400 should also work fine. Pick one & stay with it. It's not exact the dimension, it comparative.

That's what I was thinkin but somewhere I did read to use the .375. I actually went in there and put the 400 in it to see and it looked like the numbers changed but the differences were more-or-less the same. The slightly oversized ones will get long seated and FF again.

@SpencerC87 - I was using the handle with some "enthusiasm" and gettin my inconsistent results. Sometimes a double tap for really hard headed cases. Dunno what's up but far as I know it's a factory Savage chamber and just a Redding Type S. That said, I did get the rifle second hand..

 

[358WCF]

Neck OD is more like .341, not sure where you're getting .295 from. Is also depends on what his sizing die is cut to and what the chamber is cut to. If the shoulder angle isn't the same or isn't getting pushed back the same, it does matter where you measure, or compare, from. Also, I've had the best luck in consistency running the brass with decent force into the die at a good pace. If you pussyfoot around with it, it doesn't size consistantly. I'm not a believer in dwell times but plan to actually test it in the future.

Oops, I was in 6.5 mode, having just responded to a creedmore question. Will update my post

 

[HawgBonz]

I'll look at those comparator numbers a lil harder tomorrow and see what they say..

 

[Straightshooter1]

Sample size 100 pcs.
I'm FL/bushing (Redding) sizing 308 Starline brass with 4 firings and they get annealed every pass thru. I use the same RCBS Summit with the same die that hasn't been unscrewed for the last 3 firings. Cases are properly lubed with a thin coat of sizing lube and checked with a .375" Hornady comparator. As fired they come out ~1.655.
I've tried to set the die for .002" bump but I can get no regularity from it. They'll vary from 1.654 to 1.650. I'm using the same stroke and trying to keep as uniform as I can but to no avail.
Is this just the cost of working cheap brass? Mebbe I'm not annealing enough with my lil induction unit? I heat it till the case mouth starts to glow slightly.
I've got some Peterson waiting for when I felt like I was back up to speed. But wanted to practice with this Starline cause I could better afford ta screw some of those up. Whatchya think?

Regarding you induction annealing . . . I suggest letting is glow more than "slightly". With my induction annealer, to get a "proper" anneal I have to get it to glow red for between 1/2 and 3/4 second for both my .308 and 6.5 PRC cases. When I do that, I get the necks to a hardness that's equal to what I get with virgin brass (yes, I'm measuring hardness to see what what amount of time it takes).